My friends and I are all mostly over 30, foreigners from different countries, living in Japan for variable lengths of time. Everyone speaks some Japanese at varying levels and we’re all comfortable with living here. Like everyone, we’re all busy people and we somehow make it work to see each other once every month/month-and-a-half.
The other night, we head to a bar where we’ve been a couple of times, after dinner together. We take up the large table can that seat six. Maybe 30m into chatting and drinking together, dude sits at the large table right next to ours and begins to stare intently at us.
Then, at one point, he just starts interrupting the guy he’s closest to and says something in Japanese about how lively we all seem, that it’s cool we’re all speaking English, how do we know each other, where we’re from etc. My friend answers as best as he can and then we try to go back to interacting with each other.
Another minute passes before the guy, clearly not wanting to get the hint, starts interrupting again asking my friend to translate, basically, what we are chatting and laughing about. Shortly after, we end up cutting short our time at that particular bar and leaving after one drink but not before the dude kampais us and communicates his desire to follow us to the next bar so we end up making up a story about going home.
This isn’t the first time it has happened, and my wife and I are at the point where we want to say something like: “Look man, do you mind? We’re just here to hang out with our friends, we aren’t bothering anyone. While we all speak some Japanese, this is our night of speaking in our language with our friends. Besides, you would probably never do this to a Japanese person, so please stop.”
I’d like to know if there is a polite way to do this because I never know if some of these people are bar regulars or if the situation could turn sour.
38 comments
Pretend you speak zero Japanese. Even after ordering in perfect Japanese, you speak zero Japanese and cannot communicate with them.
You could be like “umm can I help you with something?” 「何か用がありますか。。。？」or when asked to join you guys give a vague excuse. If they don’t read the air after that you can be more direct and say you just want to be left alone
他を当たってください。
Don’t be a pussy.
Just say it like it is.
I’ve had this, I just bluntly say I don’t want to talk with them.
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I’ve seen this in bars with lonely older guys who want to talk to someone. I like to drink alone, but a drunk older guy sitting next to me kept bothering me.
If you are friendly with the bar staff, a quiet discussion with them can help persuade the guy to move to another seat.
That kind of thing is not unusual based on the drinking parties I’ve been to, where I tend to be the only foreigner in a group of Japanese guys. They tend to be pretty friendly when someone from another table interacts with them.
無視
No need to tell them to fuck off. The dude just sounds lonely. You could just say ‘hey you seem nice but we’re a bunch of old friends who haven’t seen each other in a long time so we’re just looking to catch up in private.’ Sends the message across without treating them like a social leper.
I feel this. I hate it when I’m having lunch or dinner with a friend and just hanging out/talking about life stuff in English, a random person would butt in or try to join our conversation.
It always usually start with a “where are you from?” When we try to be polite and say we’re from the US, we get a typical “Ohhhhh Amerika!” followed by few comments on how they’ve either been to the US or know someone from the US. Despite us trying to go back to our conversion, they’d try to add a comment or two. It’s annoying and honestly one of my pet peeves. I want to just enjoy my time with my friend. Not here or in a mood to socialize with strangers. There’s a time and place for that.
As for what to say, it depends. Sometimes, being polite backfires because they find it as an opening to interrupt even more. What sort of worked for me is being blunt like, “Sumimasen, ima wa tomodachi to no jikan nanode… (Sorry I’m trying to hang out with my friend so…)” and see how they respond. If they’ve “read the air”, most of the time they’ll figure we’re not interested in a conversation and leave us alone. If they persist, then we try to move tables or leave the place. It’s harder when we’ve already started eating/drinking, so we do our best to ignore them or ask help from the restaurant staff.
いいです。 while waving your hand no. It means like “I’m good”. You can use this phrase when someone sticks a flyer in your face that you don’t want. In your case, although not linguistically perfect in this situation, it’ll probably get the point across after a few rejections. It’s easy to remember and polite.
An old and lonely person at a bar tends to strike up conversations with those around them. In particular, some of them may try to present themselves in a more favorable light and may seek out non-Japanese people to converse with.
One possible solution is for you to pretend that you don’t understand Japanese at all. I think one of your friends may be overly kind and provide unnecessary assistance to the person.
If the person isn’t obtuse, they may notice that you guys feel uncomfortable or displeased when you say things like “今忙しくて…” (I’m busy right now), “あんまり知らない方とお話しするのは慣れてないので…” (I’m not used to talking with people I don’t know much), “身内だけで盛り上がりたいので…” (We just want to enjoy ourselves with our close friends), or “またの機会に…” (Maybe another time).
“他を当たってください” sounds quite direct and is a phrase a woman might use with a man when she doesn’t want to communicate with him.
If you were to say this phrase and it could be heard by others at a bar, the person might feel embarrassed or hurt, so it’s not a good idea if you want to be polite.
In case the person continues to engage in conversation with you, please request that the bartenders intervene and prevent them from talking to you. It’s part of their job.
P.S. My native language is Japanese.
「すみませんが、今日はちょっと…」
I don’t mean to cause offense but I’d just like to clarify:
You and your friends are in your 30’s, are going out to a bar and someone keeps trying to join your conversation. Your problem is you want to know how to make them go away? Is that right? Your problem is you’re upset someone is trying to speak to you and your friends and you need advice because you don’t know what to do about this?
This situation will only turn sour if you pick a fight. He likely won’t throw the first punch, Japanese people aren’t known for doing that, especially with foreigners. Though every one is different.
Your best bet is to ignore him. Straight up ignore him. He will try some more but if he’s mentally stable, he will eventually go away.
Based on my experience.
At some point after a bit of conversation you can just say “well it was nice to meet you, have a good night!” And then turn around or look back at your friends maybe? A bit more polite way of saying fuck off. I know some people would still persist and if they do after that then there’s not much you can do other than being mean lol
Honestly this situation you described is one of my annoyances here in Japan. Back in America I had no problem (usually) with someone joining our group in a lively bar, but here it’s literally always because they want to focus on the fact that we’re foreign and either practice English or ask all the foreigner questions. It’s just not fun for me at all, I didn’t come to the bar to relive my eikaiwa days. And as others have mentioned, they always steer the conversation away and then we can’t talk anymore. It’s honestly really selfish.
I’ve had it happen enough times that when I choose places to go out I try to find ones where there are walls between tables or it’s harder to mingle. I get anxiety about it lmao.
I kinda feel bad for the person trying to make friends with strangers in a public space.
Just take inspiration from Inglorious Basterds.
“I don’t mean to be rude. But the four of us are very good friends and we haven’t seen each other in quite a while. So… I’m afraid you’re intruding.”
Then if he won’t leave order some whisky and shoot him in the balls.
We’re going (place), where you going?
Same place as us? Oh. Maybe I’ll see you there.
Anyway, gotta get my crew ready.
He was just trying to socialize, that’s not some mortal offense. Especially in a bar, which is literally a place made to socialize with strangers.
It’s super awkward to reject people but it’s not his fault that you couldn’t verbalize your want and that he was unable to read your mind.
Your go to is to tell them to f*** off? You sound like a self important ass
“Cool!”
Polite smile + thumbs up.
Turn your back.
Tell you friend to stop engaging ffs
Think it’s time to unsub. All of you with any modicum of social skills, see you around.
Not in Japan but one time my cousin took me bar hopping for my birthday. Out of no where this guy sitting next to me started talking and told me how he just got let go from his job. I felt really bad for him. Even though my cousin urged to just ignore him, I tried my best to give some encouragement before we left to hit up another bar. The guy was extremely down & just sitting alone with his drink while the rest of the bar was very lively. Some people can be weirdos, but many are also very lonely. It’s not an uncommon situation.
Pull a Kyoto on him and tell him he has a nice watch in Japanese.
Gomenasai. Nihongo tabemasen.
Same thing has happened to us a few times. Us, a group of long term residents with families and homes here, speaking English and being slightly loud. Them, middle aged Japanese dudes who think it’s socially acceptable to randomly join a group of unknown individuals to try to get a free English lesson. One time even a free drink…
Usually we either keep moving or we agreesively ingore them and usually get the hint. We are not here to entertain people. What anoys me is they would never dare try that sort of shit with anyone Japanese. Why do they think it’s ok with non Japanese? Entitlement?
Just start speaking only in English and keep repeating you don’t understand Japanese. Speak fast in a thick accent if you can.
Yeah I totally get it. It’s because during the day the average Japanese person doesn’t even make small talk to strangers, even out of politeness.. Like try making small talk with a random stranger in a daily setting for example: in a long line at a supermarket or a cafe or something… You basically get met with a face of disgust and annoyance as if your intruding on their privacy and molesting them with your presence… only to be met with the complete other extreme when people have been drinking… It in an izakaya or a random train, then these people can’t shut the f up or know any social boundaries what so ever… I think people are just so suppressed in daily drudgery that when they do have the liquid courage in them it goes the other way…to an extreme. Then basically foreigners are seen as a target outlet to express themselves, because other Japanese won’t be having it… It’s annoying af
Offer him a pamphlet about the spiritual power of Mt Fuji
Hmmm.
Point 1: going to a bar is an act of socialization so it is quite natural for other humans to fancy joining you. Maybe next time, pick a more private place.
Point 2: as you said, he probably wouldn’t have done that with his country mates, which imo, makes him another annoying gaijin hunter rather than a genuinely culturally curious Nipponjin.
Bottom line it’s fine to either let him join (I would not) or to tell him to fuck off in a polite way.
“Sorry sir, you are not welcome in our group tonight. Please fill the application form for next week.”
This fella sounds like the inverse of “How do I make Japanese friends?”
Next time, perhaps give him the Reddit usernames of those guys, so that he can DM them an invite for a good time.
Japanese : “you foreigners can’t read the air to know when to back off!”
Also Japanese: “yo, foreigners! How’s Englishing going? “*stares intensely*
There are levels to this, sometimes it’s a genuinely friendly gesture and if it’s the right time and place I’m all for having a chat. This seems like he chose the wrong time, I’d honestly just make us some bullshit like “I’m sorry we’re dildo designers and we are spit-balling the latest ideas over a few beers. We can’t let you in incase you’re a corparate spy.”
However, what really grinds my gears is when these people do it as a hobby. There is a guy in my town who waits around place foreigners hang out and then engages them in bad breathed blunt conversation along the lines “What country? You can eat sushi?”
There is also another very rich guy who makes contact with foreigners and then makes like he wants to do business with them and asks them to meet for coffee to “discuss business”. These meetings are just free Eikaiwa lessons for him and he never actually does business with anyone. He even sometimes brings his daughter to get her some free lessons. Wretched people, I give them a polite “No, thank you.” then if they don’t roll with that I call them out for who they are.
Something similar to this recently happened while I was having a birthday picnic. Some Japanese guy locked eyes with me, I gave a friendly nod, and then boom, dude had fully sat himself at our table and said “Welcome to Japan!”.
All of us have been living in Japan for years so everyone gave a massive internal eye roll. I’m typically an outgoing, friendly guy but I have had to learn to really ice up in situations like this because when I don’t I typically end up spending energy on entertaining strangers when I would much rather be enjoying my organized company.
This particular time, he got the hint after everyone gave him a cold shoulder. We discussed it after he left where I admitted that, despite my attitude towards him, I don’t like being that way in general so I wish he would have just respected our space to begin with. We decided that the actual problem was his approach. There was no “excuse me, sorry, do you mind if I sit here?” Or “excuse me, sorry, I really like your _____ where did you get it?”. Honestly anything would be better than just plopping down and welcoming us to a city, which we later learned, HE had just moved to. Christ.
Basically the guy in your situation and my situation are acting extremely entitled in my opinion. I would never, ever expect a group of strangers to halt their conversation and translate it for me. It comes down to respecting others’ time and space. If you do want to chat up groups of foreigners only because they are foreign, at least be polite and ask if you can join the conversation/ sit down.
Of course I’m not saying that approaching strangers in public is completely taboo or never justified, but I think it’s better to be polite, have an approach, and exit the conversation smoothly and quickly if there isn’t an explicit invitation for you to join. I agree with others when they say be direct. In my case I gave cold expressions, body language, and short answers. If that doesn’t work, I think it’s well within reason to just explain that you’d like to be left alone.
Yup. This happens all the time. I’ve made a few good friends this way, attracted some annoying hangers on and annoyed Japanese friends by giving time to someone who they can see is obviously nutty.
My biggest beef is with drunks. I don’t want to talk to drunks of any nationality.
The thing is with guys like that is they tend to want to make the whole conversation about them, although on the surface he’s asking about you. *I* want to know what’s going on. *I* think it’s so cool and *I* want some of the coolness to rub off. Amaze and educate *me*. Translate for *me*.
When I go out with friends, especially at the beginning of the night, I want to know how they and their kids are doing. I want to catch up on our mutual friends. I want to know what THEY are making for the undokai bento. I don’t want to get into a discussion of if my country has undokai.
(Yes, I had one field day in kindergarten. We didn’t have any bentos, though, and the parents didn’t come. What are you making for bentos, new friend? Oh, you don’t want to talk about it? How awkward.)
I know it sucks to be lonely, but there’s a time and place. Hit up other lonely people.
(That said, two minute rule. Give them a two minute chance. If it’s a bad fit, it’s a bad fit. Sometimes they only want two minutes in the spotlight.)
Also, would recommend izakaya with private rooms like Tsubohachi or Baby Face Planets.