I mean, neither the title nor the body of your post make much sense so maybe have a think and at least rephrase it before commenting on others’ language skills?
Probably bc of lack of experience. Language is a skill at the end of the day. If you never use the subskill of conversation, you’ll never be able to use it. Even if you can read and write and listen, speaking is still a completely different thing. Especially with social situations. You’re never going to need N1 grammar in day to day convos
Cause JLPT doesn’t test for output.
I don’t think the people you are talking about exist.
I passed N1 after ~2 years of intense grinding that left little room for oral practice. It’s been 3 years since I passed and I still haven’t gone to japan yet. I still struggle with conversation due to my lack of exposure. But I am absolutely and completely able to have basic and intermediate conversation in japanese.
You can’t pass N1 without a quite fine understanding of both oral and written Japanese, and I think that this written comprehension level always translates to some extent into basic to intermediate oral proficiency.
Sure your pronunciation or pitch may be horrible but you will be able to more than get by.
It’s been brought up many times that the JLPT is FAR from the best way to really measure Japanese ability- there are four skills in learning a language, and the JLPT only tests two of them. So most people only focus on the two skills that you need for the JLPT: reading and listening.
And this is ignoring how, assuming you’re talking about people from an English-speaking country, in the Big Cities you don’t need a ton of Japanese to get by. Even moreso if you have a Japanese spouse who speaks both languages, and you let them do anything requiring Japanese for you. I have a good friend who’s been here for 20 years, and for 15 of them he had his (now ex) wife do the Japanese part. The other five, he has enough connections and lives in a Big City such that he barely needs to use it- or at least, speak it.
Are you one of those people?
Because JLPT N1 is much easier than comparable tests in other languages. A big reason for this is that it doesn’t test output and is completely multiple choice. It’s entirely possible for someone to get an N1 passing score without understanding the underlying Japanese that much just by studying the exam and applying test-taking strategies.
I’ve never met anyone with JLPT N1 who couldn’t speak Japanese. To be fair, my circle consists of ryuugakusei, and it’s pretty much expected to pass N1 to enter uni.
Maybe it’s time to find a different circle?
P.S. Where do these claims about people passing JLPT N1 without speaking Japanese come from? I can believe it if you say that the person just came to Japan or has been studying only for the test but if you’ve N1, has been living in Japan for 6 years and still haven’t reached a conversational level, isn’t that like weird?
edit: grammar lol
Edited because of shower thoughts:
One criticism of the JLPT is that it doesn’t test for speaking. Speaking is a separate skill because you have to produce the language in real time and react to the conversation in real time. To do that you need to know the language well enough to handle that task.
It could be that these people put too much emphasis on getting a piece of paper instead of practicing the language.
It’s one thing to study for and pass a test. You can know the subject matter and how to take the test goes and pass it.
It’s a balance of performance and proficiency.
Metaphorically: I can read how to do all these gymnastic stunts and watch videos, but until I get on the mat, I don’t know how to time the actions or how to shift my weight and so on. At the same time, even if I can do a perfect 10/10 backflip, I need other skills for my gymnastics routine. Without at least a rudimentary grasp of various skills, I cannot win.
The JLPT tests performance (can you do a back flip) while real life is about proficiency (even if I’m making mistakes am I getting my point across to achieve my goal).
Depends on your definition of conversational I guess. I lived in Japan for almost 5 years, N1.
I think my speaking skills is that of a elementary school kid who for some reason knows extremely advanced grammar and vocabulary yet jumbles up the easy stuff all the time and takes too long to respond. And that same elementary school kid knows how to write 2000 kanji from memory for some reason too. Weird kid.
I’m not even exaggerating. For some people I would be considered fluent. I’m hard on myself so I say I’m shit at speaking. I have to translate English to Japanese when I speak all the time. If conversational means can understand what the person person is saying and you give a broken but understandable sentence back, yeah, I don’t see any N1s being unable to do that unless they have a speech impairment.
While I definitely don’t fit the title, as a student learning it rn (3rd year of it), I can say that speaking and writing are diffrent. If im at home writing something, I can double check my work. Even on a test I can go a bit slower and double check things. However speaking is very much an instinct thing, its immediate.
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I mean, neither the title nor the body of your post make much sense so maybe have a think and at least rephrase it before commenting on others’ language skills?
Probably bc of lack of experience. Language is a skill at the end of the day. If you never use the subskill of conversation, you’ll never be able to use it. Even if you can read and write and listen, speaking is still a completely different thing. Especially with social situations. You’re never going to need N1 grammar in day to day convos
Cause JLPT doesn’t test for output.
I don’t think the people you are talking about exist.
I passed N1 after ~2 years of intense grinding that left little room for oral practice. It’s been 3 years since I passed and I still haven’t gone to japan yet. I still struggle with conversation due to my lack of exposure. But I am absolutely and completely able to have basic and intermediate conversation in japanese.
You can’t pass N1 without a quite fine understanding of both oral and written Japanese, and I think that this written comprehension level always translates to some extent into basic to intermediate oral proficiency.
Sure your pronunciation or pitch may be horrible but you will be able to more than get by.
It’s been brought up many times that the JLPT is FAR from the best way to really measure Japanese ability- there are four skills in learning a language, and the JLPT only tests two of them. So most people only focus on the two skills that you need for the JLPT: reading and listening.
And this is ignoring how, assuming you’re talking about people from an English-speaking country, in the Big Cities you don’t need a ton of Japanese to get by. Even moreso if you have a Japanese spouse who speaks both languages, and you let them do anything requiring Japanese for you. I have a good friend who’s been here for 20 years, and for 15 of them he had his (now ex) wife do the Japanese part. The other five, he has enough connections and lives in a Big City such that he barely needs to use it- or at least, speak it.
Are you one of those people?
Because JLPT N1 is much easier than comparable tests in other languages. A big reason for this is that it doesn’t test output and is completely multiple choice. It’s entirely possible for someone to get an N1 passing score without understanding the underlying Japanese that much just by studying the exam and applying test-taking strategies.
I’ve never met anyone with JLPT N1 who couldn’t speak Japanese. To be fair, my circle consists of ryuugakusei, and it’s pretty much expected to pass N1 to enter uni.
Maybe it’s time to find a different circle?
P.S. Where do these claims about people passing JLPT N1 without speaking Japanese come from? I can believe it if you say that the person just came to Japan or has been studying only for the test but if you’ve N1, has been living in Japan for 6 years and still haven’t reached a conversational level, isn’t that like weird?
edit: grammar lol
Edited because of shower thoughts:
One criticism of the JLPT is that it doesn’t test for speaking. Speaking is a separate skill because you have to produce the language in real time and react to the conversation in real time. To do that you need to know the language well enough to handle that task.
It could be that these people put too much emphasis on getting a piece of paper instead of practicing the language.
It’s one thing to study for and pass a test. You can know the subject matter and how to take the test goes and pass it.
It’s a balance of performance and proficiency.
Metaphorically: I can read how to do all these gymnastic stunts and watch videos, but until I get on the mat, I don’t know how to time the actions or how to shift my weight and so on. At the same time, even if I can do a perfect 10/10 backflip, I need other skills for my gymnastics routine. Without at least a rudimentary grasp of various skills, I cannot win.
The JLPT tests performance (can you do a back flip) while real life is about proficiency (even if I’m making mistakes am I getting my point across to achieve my goal).
Depends on your definition of conversational I guess. I lived in Japan for almost 5 years, N1.
I think my speaking skills is that of a elementary school kid who for some reason knows extremely advanced grammar and vocabulary yet jumbles up the easy stuff all the time and takes too long to respond. And that same elementary school kid knows how to write 2000 kanji from memory for some reason too. Weird kid.
I’m not even exaggerating. For some people I would be considered fluent. I’m hard on myself so I say I’m shit at speaking. I have to translate English to Japanese when I speak all the time. If conversational means can understand what the person person is saying and you give a broken but understandable sentence back, yeah, I don’t see any N1s being unable to do that unless they have a speech impairment.
While I definitely don’t fit the title, as a student learning it rn (3rd year of it), I can say that speaking and writing are diffrent. If im at home writing something, I can double check my work. Even on a test I can go a bit slower and double check things. However speaking is very much an instinct thing, its immediate.
U need to take Eng lessons dude.