Where does the り come from in some ます conjugations?

11 comments

1. Google ichidan and godan verbs. basically a godan verb moves the る part of the verb to the り when changing it to the ます form. meanwhile the ichidan verb just removes the る and changes it to ます.

   [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhyrskGBKHE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhyrskGBKHE)

2. https://www.tofugu.com/japanese-grammar/verb-conjugation-groups/

3. they are two different classes of verbs. there are verbs like 見る and 寝る that conjugate into 見ますa d 寝ます respectively. there are another class of verbs, like 聞く or 踊る that change the last kana into its い form and add ます, turning them into 聞きます and 踊ります. it’s confusing because some verbs can end in る but not be the kind of verb where you drop it. i think in most cases a verb that ends in an える or いる sound are the first kind, but tbh i just learned them by habit instead of figuring out which kind of verb was which lol. maybe someone can chime in with an easier way to tell the two kinds apart

4. Dont ask chat GPT these kind of questions. It’s liable to make shit up that sounds right, but is completely wrong. Then you have no way to disprove what you’ve learned, because you’re not talking to other humans.

5. So, you know how there’s five columns (dan) in the kana table? a, i u, e, and o?

   Well, there’s also five different ways of conjugating verbs, that correspond to each of these columns. Let’s take the verb “iku” (to go) as an example.

   **Negative Tense** (a column): “iKAnai”

   **Polite Tense** (i column): “iKImasu”

   **Base Tense** (u column): “iKU”

   **”Can/Can’t” Tense** (e column): “iKEru”

   **Volitional Tense** (o column): “iKOu”

   These are not the real names of the tenses nor all of their uses, but that’s how most beginners think of them, and for the purposes of this explanation, it doesn’t matter. What matters is that second one.

   Some verbs like 踊る have an “i” column form, and some like 寝る do not. The verbs that do are called “godan” (5 column) verbs because they have conjugations from all 5 columns of the kana vowels chart.

   Because there is no “rule” to know which verbs ending in る are 5-dan, most dictionaries will directly notate it in some way. (E.g. 5, 5d, etc.) This is even useful for native speakers if they haven’t heard the word before.

   But in practice, native speakers have heard every form of these verbs so many times growing up that they just intrinsically know what’s correct.

6. don’t use chatgpt

   pick up genki 1 or tae kim’s guide online

   some verbs that end in る are ichidan and some are godan, and that determines how they conjugate. some can be guessed and some are exceptions

7. *don’t use chatgpt for anything other than a bit of fun*. it is *not* intelligent, it doesn’t actually know anything, it just fits words together in vaguely plausible ways based on large amounts of data.

   basically there are two types of Japanese conjugation, the ichidan verbs which always end in -ru and the godan verbs which end in a consonant+u or just う. just that the latter category also contains る verbs so you can’t always tell.

   for ichidan verbs the masu stem is without ru. for godan verbs the masu stem is changing -u to -i.

   verbs ending in *aru, *oru, or *uru are always godan (except kuru, suru which are irregular). verbs ending *iru or *eru can be either, so you should learn the base form and one other form (i recommend te form rather than masu form, て for ichidan and って for godan). (*eru is more likely to be ichidan)

8. Others have answered already. But I just want to add, if you find yourself asking this question you should reevaluate how you’re learning Japanese (ie consider switching learning material)

   Everyone starts at 0 and knows nothing so I’m not knocking you for that, but the things you do and don’t know seem a little out of order here it feels like however you’re learning might be making it harder than it needs to be.

   Look up Tae Kim’s free website for a crash course. Or check out Japanese From Zero YouTube channel. If you can handle books, the best resource when I was learning was Minna no Nihongo

   がんばって

9. There are two types of common verbs in Japanese. They’re usually just called “u-verbs” and “ru-verbs” in English, but you may also hear them called “godan” and “ichidan” verbs respectively.

   The conjugation of the verb changes based on what types of verb it is. For ~ます forms of ru-verbs, you just drop the ~る and add ~ます, but it’s slightly more complicated for u-verbs. With u-verbs you take the ending kana in it’s う-form, and change it into the corisponding kana in the い-form, and then you add ~ます.

   So if the verb ends in ~う, you change it to ~います.

   If the verb ends in ~く, you change it to ~きます.

   ~す becomes ~します, ~つ becomes ~ちます, etc.

   踊る is an u-verb, and 寝る is a ru-verb. Hence why they are conjugated differently.

10. Don’t ask ChatGPT things, it doesn’t know things. It’s a token predictor designed to output things that humans can’t tell was written by an AI. It basically _knows_ nothing, but it tells you incorrect things very confidently.

11. If you picked up a Japanese textbook this would be covered in the first or second chapter.