OK
So last night my partner and I were browsing Google maps to check out restaurants to try in Chiang Mai, Thailand.
We happened across a Japanese language review of a famous local burger joint, the only one of which on the front page was lower than 5 stars. (The place has been going for 40 years and seems to be a community staple)
So, the guy has added about 30 photos of his experience there. And the review was absolutely glowing. Wonderful food. Nice service. Kind staff. Good drinks. There’s a good 3 to 5 paragraphs, all positive.
Then the star rating is 3.
3!?
I checked out the guys full profile, in which they’ve written over 9000 reviews. Almost all of which are absolutely full of praise, with 99% being a 3 star rating.
(The only exception was a car park in Kyoto – that got a 5 star)
The whole thing made me giggle a fair bit, while also feeling I was gazing into the abyss
What the hell?
Edit – Thanks for all the responses everyone. Of course, I do appreciate that there’s a different cultural norm in terms of measurement between Japan and (other places)
I think the biggest gap for me, in my line of thinking, is that I only review things that are exceptionally good (as a recommendation to other like minded people) or exceptionally bad / disappointing (as a warning)
I can’t help thinking that 9k reviews about places that simply met expectations is a little bit ‘screaming into the void’, and a whole lot of pointlessness – I mean, there ought to be some variation in that number of reviews. Surely not everything, from 9000 things is just good/standard.
Lastly, I’ve really gotta check out that car park in Kyoto
https://www.reddit.com/r/japan/comments/17zgdq0/question_about_japanese_review_culture/
41 comments
Japanese are probably the only people who understand that 3 stars means “Good”, and 5 stars is “Exceptional/above and beyond”.
It’s like with movie ratings – while 5/10 should be average, people somehow see 7/10 as average.
This is normal for Japanese reviews. They’re really strict, basically a western 5 is a Japanese 3
It means it’s good, not blowing your mind. Like, they won’t give out a 5 unless it’s absolutely perfect. They just aren’t as forgiving and honestly I prefer this way to the US where every one seems to give either a 1 or 5 and nothing in between.
It’s rare to find 4+ for common people food or what we call “B-Grade gourmet” as 4+ is pretty much reserved for rather fancy food, like something you book for date. I’d say the place that gets 4.2 or so in average qualify as 5 star for those places, and 3.5+ to be decent lunch.
Another thing about Japanese rating is that we tend to take customer service seriously, so you may soon find ridiculous review like “Food was excellent and price was more than reasonable. Superb. But this one waiter was a dick so 2/5 stars” and whatnot. The same goes for review for doctors etc
If you look at Tabelog (even though it was shown to be corrupt pile of poo), the topped ranked restaurants are often 3.something. Even Michelin starred restaurants are lucky to scrape a 4. I guess a 3 is pretty good, better than average.
While visiting Japan I noticed that really good restaurants hovered around four stars, sometimes even a little less. I think that they are indeed strict reviewers. I more or less figured that anything sitting at a 3.5 would be a fairly safe bet over there.
This is normal because 3 means everything was as expected and what is expected is good food and good service. 4 would be beyond expectations and 5s are ultra-rare because it would suggest that literally nothing can be better.
This is actually why I end up referring to Japanese reviews often since I find it more meaningful when 5s are not given out like its default or as courtesy to the establishment
There’s a reason why Japanese review sites need to have two decimal places for their ratings.
3.28 = terrible. 3.82 = amazing.
In Japan
* 1 star – you insulted me
* 2 star – you didn’t do your job!
* 3 star – you did a good job!
* 4 star – you did a good job, with overtime too!
* 5 star – you did a good job, giri-giri karoushi! WOW!!
Japanese review culture is really far removed from the rest of the world. In particular, it is completely different from that of the United States. Japanese people rarely give a rating of 5, with 3 being a normal rating and 5 being the best and highest rating ever given in the history of mankind.
Once you get used to this standard, it is not particularly difficult, but there is one problem.
This is especially true in the video game culture, where selling a game to the Japanese will result in a lower rating.
For example, if an American gives a game 5 stars, and a Japanese person says it is a great game! and gives it 4 stars. To the Japanese, 4 stars looks like a great game, but outside of Japan, the game looks like it has fallen out of favor.
Like everyone says, 3.5+ on Tabelog is pretty damn good in Japan.
The standard rating for yelp or google maps seems to be a 5 or a 1 in the states, which makes it hard to discern if the place is actually good or not.
3/5 is typically the highest rating Japanese people will give.
Often they have barely related bizarre complaints, like they didn’t like a different customer’s manners, or they saw some rubbish outside. They’re entertaining to read.
if you ever go to japan eat at the 3/5 star places in google maps, in our experience those were so amazing and cheap, people from japan have insane standards 😱
Now I want to try that parking lot!
Odd, Movie reviews are somewhat different in Japan. I usually see even crap movies (ones that literally bombed) getting a 3 out of 5 score.
Genetic autism
Japanese review: Perfect service, amazing food, ate for free, chef cured my mum’s cancer. At one point someone walking on the other side of the street briefly glanced in the direction of the restaurant and may have caught my eye for a moment. Rating: 3/5
It’s so bizarre, there is no concept of scale with Japanese reviews.
On the flip side, you’ll also see things on Amazon like:
“I haven’t opened the package yet, but it arrived on time and the box looks nice. 5/5”
Food was excellent, service was outstanding, beautifully restored building dating from the Edo period. But it was raining. 2 stars.
I just had evaluation at work. Achieving 100% of my goals gives 3/5 points.
To get 4/5, I have to exceed my goals.
To get 5/5, I have to exceed expectations.
(Corollary: Exceeding goals is expected)
The 5-star rank is a gift handed by Amaterasu herself to the newborn at the time of the birth, it can only be used once in a lifetime of said person. It went to a parking lot.
Hence no more 5-star ratings from this person.
I’m still holding onto my 5-star.
One of my hobbies is writing review on google maps.
Most common complaints I see:
1) Water was not served without asking (This is the most common. If you run a restaurant make sure you serve water as soon as possible.) >Water was not cold, water was not lukewarm are other related common complaints.
2) Waiter was not friendly. (Very common).
3) Water was charged.
4) Deserts for two people did not arrive at the same time. (Very common)
5) Misunderstandings about reservation, making customer wait for any reason. (This one is more understandable. This will mostly come from foreigners)
6) Napkin or cutlery was placed on an angle.
7) Other customers were speaking loud.
In addition, there is not really a reference frame for those reviews. Some people judge a restaurant within its category. Some people give 4/5 stars to only restaurants with 3 Michelin stars.
The reviewing and rating style in Japan differs significantly from that in the West. In Japan, a 3/5 rating indicates that something is ‘good as expected’ and is considered positive, especially among older Japanese individuals. I believe the reviewer in question is an older Japanese person.
A 4/5 or 5/5 rating signifies that the product or experience exceeded expectations and is exceptionally good for the price, a rating rarely given by Japanese reviewers. It’s important to note that the reviewer may not be aware of how non-Japanese individuals typically review and rate things, so their intention might not be to convey anything special or cause confusion.
I actually kind of like the Japanese way of rating things now that I’m used to it. It’s how we expect professional critics to rate things, after all, with nuance and an eye for what could be improved. I see products on Amazon US all the time that have nearly perfect ratings with hundreds of reviews, as if we start with 5 stars and then remove stars only for egregious flaws. I admire the positive attitudes, but it’s not actually helpful for comparing options.
you are correct with your observation. Japanese are really picky about reviewing
I’m so glad this is noticed by foreigners. I thought I was going mad seeing these reviews.
They use the Hogwarts grading system:
– 5 = Outstanding (O)
– 4 = Exceeds Expectations (E)
– 3 = Acceptable (A)
– 2 = Poor (P)
– 1 = Dreadful (D)
Most places are as expected – therefore a 3.
Just commenting to add – be sure to go to Miguel’s in Chiang Mai. It’s the best Tex-Mex in Asia for sure.
honestly I wish review systems were starred 1 to 3, 1 is bad, 3 is above expectations, and 2 meets expectations because honestly who sits down and fully goes through their experience of the service to nitpick the need to use 2 or 4 instead of the even hate/normal/love of 1,3, and 5. and then of course everyone who actually cares about diving into the reviews will be able to judge the ratings better after reading the comments because even if someone loved/hated a service that was given to them, you might’ve been looking for/avoiding it and now have a better understanding of expectations
TLDR: ratings should be hate/expected/love for simplicity while a reviewer’s comment gives the true context of the rating
If you go to Japanese rating site Tabelog most of the review are 3 because that’s the standard.
If you found a 4 star rated restaurant it must be doing exceptionally good.
I think 3 out of 5 means ”As expected” therefore good in general.
If service was bad then you get 1 or 2. If the service and quality was above the expectation, you get 4 or 5.
wonder what that car park did to get a 5
5 star is for the one place in life that may be perfect (or a car park in Osaka!) that may not exist. You can only award once…
So basically 4 is what 5 star would be in other places.
westerner 5/5=entirely satisfied (subjective)
Japanese 5/5=perfect (objective)
I LOVED Japanese reviews, when I was in Japan. They are so funny to me:
“The food was amazing. The service was superb. The place is so beautiful. Unfortunately there are not many parking spaces nearby: 2/5”
It’s over 9000!!!1!
Simply because Japan has a lot of good food.
Many countries cannot find a restaurant as good as in Japan.
Traditionally, a Japanese person who gives a perfect score is either having had the best experience or has been brainwashed.
Although it is less common now, there were quite a few people in management positions who, after cleaning was completed, would pat the cleaned area with their finger and tell the person to start cleaning all over again because there was dust on it.
In the food logs as well, the minimum requirement for a rating is “never had an unpleasant experience”.
For example, instead of “I waited a long time for my turn, but the food was delicious, so I gave it a perfect score,” one might say, “The food was delicious, but I had to wait my turn, so I gave it a 3, but I won’t write the reason for the original score.
My experience of Japanese reviews in general are like this.
“A delicate flavor on the steak, cooked perfectly to a crisp outer layer and the inner contents were warm and flavorful.
The appetizers were also delicious, with a colorful, but not overdone blend.
The creme Brule was also notable, with a perfectly crystallized top layer. Underneath was creamy but not heavy.
But there was a chair in the corner with a strange discoloration. It was completely out of place in this otherwise perfect restaurant.”
3 / 5 stars.
I rent out on Airbnb. Recently the platform saw an influx of Korean users. The Airbnb rep said that they are notorious for not reviewing 5*, which is kind of the norm for Airbnb. There always has to be something wrong with their experience.
I’m not sure if someone else has already mentioned it, but they basically rate the same way companies here rate their employees. A 3/5 is 100%, anything beyond that is above expectations.
I do wonder what made the parking lot deserve 5/5 though.
I think the 5 star format is fundamentally misunderstood by people. 3 stars out of 5 should be average or bare minimum but everyone acts like anything below a 4.5 star is garbage.
I seems to me that you are in that boat. At the same time, this reviewer might be thinking that 3 stars is the bare minimum of food quality to good a good review and anything above 3 stars should be orgasmic.