It’s something I’ve noticed clearly since I came over here, but it’s really baffling. Foreigners in Japan tend to be really cruel to others. Mocking people for having low paying jobs, for being single, for getting divorced, for having alcohol problems. I’ve seen it all.
At first I wanted to file it under “Redditors are just jerks”, but even in my home country, people (on Reddit or otherwise) would absolutely be called out and told off if they mocked a newcomer for working a low paying job. People making light of divorces and stuff would be seen as socially or mentally ill, they definitely wouldn’t get upvotes.
I also considered it was just a Japan thing, but I don’t see Japanese citizens behaving this way, nor do I see people being nasty to low-income Japanese workers such as delivery drivers or convenience store workers.
It seems that this behavior is only prevalent when gaijin are interacting with other gaijin. Why is that? I’m genuinely curious. Generally people in similar situations stick together and support each other. Yet it seems to be the opposite here.
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47 comments
Have you tried getting the fuck out of my country? /s
Have you seen the equivalent of reddit in Japanese?
Even in normal 相談 sites, Japanese are also using harsh words too. Nothing different with reddit.
Might just be your sample size unfortunately. I’ve found a few eccentric but atleast courteous fellow guyjeans so far. Made alot of friends overall
I understand what you mean.
Most of the time I feel they should be on r/ImTheMainCharacter
I think it’s a combination of factors (some of which were probably applicable to myself at times without realizing it).
One common point is that people just generally like to feel special or unique. That extends to the often noted being the token foreigner in a local setting. It can also include those who have achieved moderate success here with work. A large percentage of people who come here (and unfortunately who complain) are those in lower paying jobs like teaching, which can make the smaller unique crowd feel special. That’s where we see posts asking how to budget on 10m a year lol.
In the end though, the individual and their own personality is what really sets them apart as being negative towards others. The context is just an opportunity for them.
Idk. Most of my foreign friends here in Japan are nice people and most of my interactions on subreddit are normal.
Of course you will some jealous or rude people but those people are everywhere you go.
I’ve also noticed.
My take? (Downvote me, I’m ready)
Bunch of mostly-guys have a sort of okay life in their own country – not great socially, not a great romantic life, no great professional outlook. They love Japan.
Come to Japan, everything increases to some extent at first, they invest everything here, get an English teaching job and a Japanese wife. To the point where going back makes little sense.
Soon to realize that they are in traps – their job sucks and have no outlook for progress, their relationships with their wives suck for a reason or another, they’re far from friends and family, they feel lonely and stuck.
This, in addition to a society that will let Gaijin be Gaijin and not require them to polish their quirks and self-centerdness = legions of very rude guys that are sour and will downvote this into oblivion, be rude to each other and the world and develop a last Samurai complex.
That’s not everyone of course – I’ve met a bunch of great people, but I feel like this fits a lot of people on here (Japan subs) and a non-negligeable portion of foreigners I’ve met in person.
I don’t go to Japan to meet other Americans. I go there to get away from them.
Probably some insecurity. People who themselves have low-paying jobs, or the insecurity of short-term visas, or poor relationships due to low Japanese ability etc. put others down in order to feel better about themselves.
Yes, absolutely and I didn’t have this problem with the expat community in Korea and those people were in their early thirties and early forties. There were so many supportive people that I met in a town near Busan.
But here? Even the Online “private” groups have one upping, condescending, fake support, bragging, virtual signaling, you name it.
Get out and see real people, not people hiding behind the internet. The internet is full of people either coming to complain or trying to be edgy. Most foreigners I have met while out and about are quite nice, some I would even consider friends. Though there are a couple of them in my city that literally ignore any interaction with fellow foreigners. I just chalk them up to the fact that there are jerks everywhere and I have better things to do with my time than trying to interact with them.
Definitely an Internet thing. I know a ton of foreigners and we’re all supportive of each other. I even find that the foreign women in my area are extra friendly when they encounter me and my kids on the street. I feel a real sense of camaraderie with them!
In the Internet, though? Lot of sad folks. Not the “happily settled down” crowd. Don’t let it get to you. Decent people won’t judge an immigrant for having an “undesirable” job.
Having lived in 3 other Asian countries I can say (some) Gaijin are some of the worst expats in Asia. (Myself included)
There is a lot of gatekeeping and it’s strange.
Like Gaij are often annoyed when other gaij are not Japan savvy, but also another when another gaij totally is and is accepted like they should be the only one.
On the flip side I’ve met quite a few incredible expats here as well.
# “Japanlife. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.”
Because i want to be the only one
Where are you encountering these people?
Most people I meet in real life are generally nice and sympathetic, being in the same situation as I.
If you’re talking about on Reddit? Yes… They’re bitter, lonely and spiteful. But that’s online.
There’s a foreign guy in my neighbourhood who actively ignores my 挨拶 when we pass each other in the street.
Massive “only gay in the village” energy
It’s just normal hierarchical societal placement. If you have a low paying job or can’t speak Japanese here, you are lower on the foreigner hierarchy and other foreigners will treat you as such. It’s a microcosm of wider society, the same way foreigners in western English speaking countries who speak 0 English and have bad, labour jobs are looked down upon.
More people notice it moving to Japan as they are making a large downwards shift in societal position.
It’s not as simple as people like to make out on here, saying it’s people wanting to feel special
Idk about that. A lot of foreign people I don’t necessarily know that well have let me sleep on their floor because I live so far away from everything. Outside of the big cities we look out for each other.
Average westerners move to a cushy, privileged nation, and think their privilege and success is due to them being exceptional, and punch down on everyone they can.
BUT let’s keep in mind, Westerners are not all foreigners. The vast majority of foreigners in Japan are Asian.
I think for some, living in Japan is the crowning achievement of their life; the only interesting thing about them. So when someone comes along who they see as less deserving, maybe a refugee, or from a poorer country, no degree etc. they see them as easily attaining something they had to dedicate their whole life and personality to achieving. Those kind of people tend to be losers IRL, and I’d be willing to wager few of them make the kind of salaries they claim to be making online.
There’s tons of expats here who don’t use Reddit. Don’t use what you see on this subreddit as the true equivalent of what’s happening in Japan IRL. My circle of expat friends are a wholesome welcoming bunch.
Visit 2ch / 5ch / any other japanese anonymous board, so you can have fair assessment, your assestment is flawed because you compare japanese citizen behavior in their tatemae vs gaijin redditor behavior in their honne
Loser back home
“My Japan” syndrome
A lot of it is pure nationalism, mostly from British types. Lots of punching down disguised as banter.
Man hates nothing more than that which resembles himself.
They’re just classist assholes that like to pretend they didn’t do any othe gaijin rites-of-passage over here. Chances are they’re insufferable pricks even back in their home country, which is why they’re probably here in the first place: no one could stand them in their home country and they had far less reservations telling them so than we do.
Personally, I have better shit to do than shit on other foreigners; as far as I’m concerned we’re all in this together so we should stick up for one another regardless of background.
I’m not sure if this is the whole explanation, but I think it’s an interesting factor.
In migration studies, you usually talk about two groups of immigrants: migration and elite migration. “Migration” includes refugees, asylum seekers, economic migrants, irregular migrants etc. Generally people moving from the global south to the global north in search of a better life. Elite migration involves the uber wealthy, bank executives, etc. People for whom money is no object.
I feel like Japan has a lot of people in the middle of those two groups. The middle class migrants, if you will. Take the average English teacher for example. They’re from a Western, English speaking country. They make a slightly below average salary. They didn’t come to Japan fleeing war. They’re not making more than they would in their home country. They’re not in either category. The traditional migrants in Japan are the folks from Nepal, Vietnam, etc who work in factories and care homes. The elite migrants are making 10M/year
From a salary and quality of life standpoint, English teachers probably have more in common with migrants from SE Asia working in factories. However, the elite migrants are often from their same country, or culturally similar ones in the anglosphere. Therefore the average English teacher is more likely to be in the same spaces (online at least, if not in person) as elite migrants making 3-4x what they do.
That can breed resentment. A sense of “why aren’t I there too? I should be making that kind of money. We’re both American/British/Australian.” Which is kind of ridiculous when you think about it. How often do you go around comparing yourself to bank executives in your home country? Once the comparison is established though, it sticks. If that average English teacher is able to move up a bit, maybe to the 5-6M range, they start to look back on the people who are where they once were with disdain. “Look at that chum. He makes nothing. He’s a loser English teacher.”
Basically I think that there’s a huge income spread within the relatively small foreign community, which leads to unfair comparisons
I wouldn’t say this is the norm, but I’ve unfortunately come to experience something similar as well.
I am fond of the term “Main Character Syndrome” because I think this sort of attitude ends up being somewhat temporary. I think these sort of foreigners tend to view moving to Japan as some sort of “Second Chance at Life” and become hyper fixated on that to the point where they perhaps start viewing people in a very narrow way. Other foreigners seem to be viewed as some sort of an obstacle, instead of being potential benefactors. I can’t speak to all cases, but In my case I get the sense they think that other foreigners somehow either make their chances of making Japanese friends worse, or threaten their social status in Japanese friends group as they would no longer be “that one foreigner”. Regardless of whether or not one can actually form a meaningful relationship with others on the basis of being “that foreigner”.
I’ve found that older people and those who have lived in Japan for more than 2 years have already come to accept their circumstances and generally don’t behave in such a naive manner. However my experience in a Japanese language school has taught me that many people have very shallow and odd assumptions about what “life in Japan” should be like. Once those people face disillusionment I fully expect them to complain about every small “Japanese” idiosyncrasy and eventually return to their home country.
Such is life.
I think that a lot of foreigners here feel like imposters in some way. They find it hard to justify why exactly they came to the country – all the more so if they don’t speak the language. On top of that life in Japan is isolating and the work culture can be rough and demeaning, especially in the case of some English teaching at least, which is what a large number of people who lurk here do. Basically, people are desperate for a bit of schadenfreude. They want to justify their own existence in this country by identifying someone worse than them and saying “well, at least I’m not like that”
Add that to the fact that most people only get the urge to comment online when they have something vent about and it creates some serious toxicity.
90% of the foreigners I’ve met in real life are lovely and have each other’s backs. It’s definitely an internet thing.
Are you talking only about foreigners from the West?
This has been the case since at least 2006. (some) Foreigners would avoid noticing each other. Once on a train I had to tell a guy it was OK to acknowledge my existence (he kept looking at me when I was looking elaewhere).
I called it the “Japan is mine alone” phenomena.
I think it’s a consequence of life as a foreigner being very hierarchical here. Lots of people are trapped in low-paying dead end jobs, some people have better jobs, others are at the very top with cushy expat package jobs. It’s kind of irresistible to place yourself within that hierarchy.
Obama
Some people can’t handle the sudden “fame” they get by being the only white guy in a 10km radius.
They think they are literal rock stars. It goes to their head and inflates their ego.
When they suddenly meet another foreigner, they perceive it as a threat to their “throne”.
**”*****My*** **Japan!”**
It only happens on reddit tbh. If my mate got a divorce or was working in a low paying job i would never degrade or take the piss out of him/her. I’m working in a low paying job and i get along fine with other foreigners, the only one that keeps mentioning my salary and whether i get a bonus (i’ve told her 5 times that i don’t get one) is my MIL.
Online foreigners. Most of the people in these subs, despite the salaries and credentials they boast of…
Are poorly socialized losers who you’d never want to know in the first place.
Find your crew and do your thing.
Its not a foreigners in Japan issue, but just humanity in general. Genuine kindness is rare in this world
Yes i realised this in the first day I came here. For context, i came from Brazil and the Brazilian woman who was driving me to my new apartment was openly talking shit about the other brazilian people for not being able to stay in their factory jobs, completely ignoring that they are usually low paying, heavy and dirty. She was saying how us gaijin couldn’t complain about japan and just to the work or go home. I guess thats true to some extent, but I never really understood the lack of empathy
It’s all a pissing contest, which is weird because the Japanese will never accept foreigners as their own. It’s like high schoolers forming cliques and trying too hard to fit in, lots of drama but ultimately inconsequential.
From my perspective I am mostly hostile to people that don’t know Japanese/don’t want to study. Basically I feel like these people come to another country and are trying to force their worldviews/culture. I really enjoy Japanese culture so seeing someone from outside trying to change it makes me feel angry.
Also Gaijins sticking up with only other Gaijins. That also piss me off.
I mean.. why do street gangs fight each other instead of burning down wallstreet?
A lot of gaijin (probably rightly) feel like the “other” here. Being seen as a “regular” member of society is always just out of reach, so people fight for status and resources among their own because being on the top of the bottom feels like more success and respect than being on the bottom of the bottom.
I don’t think this is particularly unique to Japan, I think it’s just more obvious from within the community when the community of “others” is so insulated.
From the outside, Japanese people really aren’t noticing about think how some foreigners shit on other foreigners. they either think all foreigners are the same, or they think of some as “the good ones” and a lot of people just strive to be a “good one”
my observation is that being foreigner is somewhat ‘unique’ here as the foreign / immigration population is quite low compared to Western countries. I see it as ‘the token foreign guy’ in japanese social circles. So then when another foreign person arrives, you have to share that spotlight and you aren’t seen as unique.
I could be wrong, i could be right, but is just how i see it.
The worst job interview in my life was with a foreigner interviewer while in Tokyo. It was so bad and beyond my wildest imaginations. Never heard of such egregious accusations (not just about me, but about other groups) in other occasions, let alone a job interview.
I encountered foreigners in cults. Luckily I haven’t encountered Japanese ones.
There are plenty of foreigners who would only interact with you for certain benefits. If you don’t provide such benefit their attitude changes immediately (they want free language exchange partners for example)
There are sexpats around
I’ve met halfs and quarters, who feel bad being ostracized at some point in their lives, despite speaking fluent Japanese. When they see foreigners they dump their frustrations.
I’ve seen downright liars, basically would take advantage of your sympathy and empathy. There are people who want to involve me into their private affairs (like contractual disputes that I had nothing to do with).
A lot of scammers are foreigners who target other foreigners.
tldr: foreigners show their true colors more towards other foreigners
“I don’t see Japanese citizens behaving this way, nor do I see people being nasty to low-income Japanese workers such as delivery drivers or convenience store workers. ”
Then you are living in a very, very different Japan than the one I know.
Both of my kids have had a number of low-income style jobs, like conbeni and supermarkets and izakaya, and they were SHOCKED at how they were treated by Japanese people. Like, come home genuinely outraged on a pretty frequent basis. The stories they told of entitled Japanese assuming they could treat low-income workers like servants were… numerous.
But that’s unrelated to foreigners in Japan being dicks to each other. That’s just people pissing on lampposts and staking out THEIR Japan and defending it. When Japan is full of foreigners, how can they feel special? It’s really that simple.
It’s nice to live somewhere where just by virtue of having blue eyes and speaking your native language semi-coherently you get treated like someone important. Having a bunch of other people like that hanging around cheapens that. Especially if they dare to know things about Japan that conflict with the big “I am the only one who truly understands the exotic orient” narrative they have developed in their heads. So they get protective and shitty.
Ignore them. They’re all going home in a couple years anyway.
My guess is that it’s less so in places like HK, SG, PH, Thailand because there are so many MORE foreigners there, so they never get the real chance to feel so special. And also, in those places, speaking English isn’t such an amazing “skill” so those foreigners have to actually know how to do things to get employed. So they are less nervous about being called out for being essentially tape-recorders with Tinder accounts.
you don’t have to go far, even this subreddit filled foreigner that can and will lick japanese socks if it mean to be “one of the good one”
I’ve met many great and helpful other foreigners here in Osaka. Likewise for my Japanese friends. Genuinely good people, doesn’t matter if they work in a bar, teach English or do something wild. It’s only when I come on this fucking subreddit that I see these wild hot takes.
The only time another foreigner looked down on me in person was for being a teacher. It was at a bar and the dude was a raging alcoholic trying to act higher than me because he supposedly made more money. Just did a 180 and didn’t even acknowledge his existence. I had a great night after.