Would love to hear feedback from foreigners working in the Japan corporate world.
I am an American man, married to a Japanese woman, living in the United States. We had 1 kid. I met my wife in Japan, and shes been living with me in the US for the past 7 years.
My wife is really growing tired of the US, and really wants to move back to Japan. I completely sympathize with her. I love Japan, but all of my experience in the country has been as a tourist. At a high level, I’d love to move there.
I’d need to get a new job, and this is the bit that terrifies me. I’m currently a senior level tech worker working for a very large US tech company. I’ve succeeded through hard work and delivering results. Have essentially spent my entire adult life climbing the ladder getting to where I am now. I’m extremely hesitant to walk away from that. I love my current job.
Working in Japan honestly sounds terrifying. I’ve heard the tales. The Japanese management structure, the long unproductive hours at the office, and terrible work life balance. I worry that as a foreigner, I would never have the same opportunities for advancement and recognition of the work I have done, and no matter how hard I try, I will always be a gaijin.
While talking about this with my wife, she’s adamant that Japan simply isn’t like this anymore. She keeps telling me that’s how it was 20 years ago, and people/companies aren’t like that anymore.
I honestly have a hard time believing her. Her work in Japan was in the beauty industry, and she never had any exposure to corporate life. I also question it because everything I have seen or read completely contradicts what she is saying. In addition, my own outside in observations of Japan during my visits seems to contradict this as well.
So my questions are basically, for people that work in Japan in the corporate world, how is work life like in 2022?
\-How many hours do you spend in the office a week?
\-Are you spending useless hours in the office that are unproductive just to show you are there?
\-Overtime expected even if unpaid?
\-Do you need to stay in the office until your boss decides to leave?
\-Mandatory drinking with your boss/coworkers after hours? (followed by somehow showing up in the office hungover early the next morning)
\-Promotional opportunities have more to due with seniority vs individual results?
\-Sick/vacation time frowned upon?
\-Foreigners will be passed upon if there is a Japanese applicant for a job? (no equal opportunity employment)
\-Foreigners will never be considered as equals in the workplace?
\-Resume must be hand written and include a picture of yourself?
\-Housing discrimination is still a thing?
\-How would you compare pay for an equivalent job in the US? (I realize the cost of living in Japan is lower than alot of the US)
Anything else you could add would be helpful. My general thought here, is I suspect Japan has changed a bit in the last 20 years, but not nearly to the extent she is saying.
8 comments
American man, Japanese wife, moved my corporate job from US the Japan and essentially did a “reset” on my career. Climbed to management/director level as a local hire and then voluntarily retired in my 30s just a few years ago. I think I’m fairly qualified to answer your entire post, though my industry was different than yours and you will have to keep that in mind.
Let’s get a few obvious things out of the way. The feelings your wife is having are very natural and common. My wife experienced it during our brief time in US, and many of my friends’ and colleagues’ wives have shared similar experiences. It’s a standard experience amongst men like us and you will find others to share your experiences with. You will definitely have to make the big decision – with your wife – not just about your career, but about where to settle, raise a family, the type of life you want, and whether you yourself can stomach being away from the US in the event something happens with your family back home.
Your wife is right but wrong at the same time about how things are, and there are a bunch of “every situation is different” disclaimers you can throw on everything I’m about to type here. As a fellow American, I know there are people that would argue that the US is insane right now, and there are people that would argue there’s no better time than now to build a career in America. That’s just how it is. Each person’s perspective is based on their own set of circumstances, and each person will deal with challenges their own way. With that said, I will answer your questions the way you formatted them in order to save space/time.
**In short:** Your work experience should make you immune to a lot of the bullshit you are worried about. If you have skills and experience in demand, you can choose the best employer you want, get a great comp package, and enjoy an upper middle-class life. This is why we always recommend people make mid-career moves when coming to Japan. Basically a blank check/cheat code to skip 99% of the challenges young foreigners face with employment here.
-**How many hours do you spend in the office a week?**
This will vary by your industry/rank/responsibilities/whether your employer is fully Japanese or an MNC. Let me put it this way though for my industry (financial services/consulting) – I spent MORE time in the office/at the client in the US than I did in Japan. Yes, I have spent all-nighters and 16 plus hour days in Japan. But that was the same in America. So assuming you are coming from an intense or competitive industry already, I don’t think this changes much. If you’re a European I see why you might be concerned about work-life balance. But us Americans? We are no better or worse.
-**Are you spending useless hours in the office that are unproductive just to show you are there?**
I know where this “myth” comes from and I will say it’s a very person-specific issue. As someone who has managed dozens of Japanese and foreign teams/employees under them, in general, I would say Japanese workers are less efficient with their time than foreign workers, but value their personal time less and so are more willing to be physically present at their workplace. This is what contributes to the “sit all day and do nothing just to look like you are working” thing. Also, at least among gaishikei, remote/flex work is now becoming the norm, even moreso than their overseas counterparts.
-**Overtime expected even if unpaid?**
Will depend on your firm/industry. Most gaishikei pays full overtime with zero issue. People triple their monthly salaries with the overtime they are paid in my industry. It’s usually domestic firms trying to cut corners. Also remember that, usually, management and above level lose overtime pay and their comp packages are based on that.
-**Do you need to stay in the office until your boss decides to leave?**
This is again one of these dumb internet memes at this point. Are there office environments like this? Sure. But as a foreigner with the experience you mention, you would filter out those kinds of workplaces quite easily. Basically, you should be immune to these types of situations because you will be working for companies that don’t operate like this.
-**Mandatory drinking with your boss/coworkers after hours? (followed by somehow showing up in the office hungover early the next morning)**
Same answer as above. This is the equivalent of “every American owns a gun.”
-**Promotional opportunities have more to due with seniority vs individual results?**
Will depend. Japanese in general do NOT chase promotions proactively, while foreign employees DO. It’s very common to see foreign employees that started below a Japanese colleague eventually outrank them (the Japanese colleague basically remains the same rank for years) simply because foreign employees push the issue more. Whether it’s time-based or KPI-based will depend on your firm.
-**Sick/vacation time frowned upon?**
All gaishikei I have worked at/with have unlimited sick time and gradually increasing vacation time allowances, with roll-forwards of unused time. Japanese employers will usually have more stringent rules around use. Frowned upon is again an industry/company issue. At a firm I worked at in America, employees had to give six months plus notice for taking a two week vacation. I’ve never experienced that here in Japan. So again, as an American…
-**Foreigners will be passed upon if there is a Japanese applicant for a job? (no equal opportunity employment)**
If your experience/education is in order, Japanese applicants will be discriminated against because of you. The roles are reversed here. You hold the bargaining power.
-**Foreigners will never be considered as equals in the workplace?**
Depends on industry/company. I worked from staff level to manager/director and hired/fired Japanese and foreign employees. From a professional perspective, they saw me more than an equal. Personal perspective will depend on your personal skills and the type of person you are. Are there some artificial ceilings in place for foreigners in general? Yes, I can agree with that. Do they truly impede anyone that REALLY wants to climb to the top? In my opinion, no, they are just nuisances.
-**Resume must be hand written and include a picture of yourself?**
That is the customary way of doing a classic CV here in Japan but it depends on the recruiter/agency you are working with. 99% of places now simply use an online template from something like a LinkedIn or Indeed. Some use both. For example, every vendor I work with usually sends me at least a Japanese and a “modern” CV for an employee. Either way this is simply not important in terms of anything.
-**Housing discrimination is still a thing?**
For places you wouldn’t want to live in anyway? Sure. “Discrimination” is usually as a result of financial issues though. If you have money, you will not be discriminated against here. Sounds similar to the US again. But the simple answer for you is – you have a Japanese wife, you will not be discriminated against.
-**How would you compare pay for an equivalent job in the US? (I realize the cost of living in Japan is lower than alot of the US)**
Depends across every industry and your lifestyle demands but yes, pay is less. As a random example, with the time it took me to break JPY 20 million I should have been on track for about a total comp package of USD 450k. However, as we all know, JPY 20 million has the potential to go a lot further than 450k in the US depending on the location. I’d be lying if I said this didn’t contribute to my reason of retiring and doing my own thing.
In summary, as you can see, I wrote the word “depends” a lot in this post.
>While talking about this with my wife, she’s adamant that Japan simply isn’t like this anymore. She keeps telling me that’s how it was 20 years ago, and people/companies aren’t like that anymore.
el-oh-el.
>So my questions are basically, for people that work in Japan in the corporate world, how is work life like in 2022?
The things you’ve listed all exist, but it is easier to at least avoid some of them by finding the right employer. Lots of foreign companies and savvy tech companies are better about benefits and at least putting up the pretense of healthy work environments, even if it isn’t nearly as ideal as it looks.
Your wife’s definitely a little delusional, but don’t give up hope – just be really careful about who you apply for, do the research, really make the effort to find foreign employees at the same companies and hear their experiences. Your awareness of these issues puts you way ahead of where a lot of posters to this sub usually are, so that’s at least a good start.
Everyone’s experience is of course different. For me working in Japan has so far been okay but I’m planning to at some point look for remote work with an American company (I’m American) or work for a foreign company here. I’m a software engineer for a fairly large and famous Japanese company in a fairly rural prefecture.
I’m considered a valuable asset for both my English as well as my ability to think outside the box. I like my work for the most part but it can sometimes be annoying to work inside a fairly conservative and old fashioned office. I don’t really have much relationship with my coworkers because of the language and culture barrier but my managers are pretty good and friendly. Japanese people are nice but pretty shy for the most part. Work is work though and I try to be happy outside of it traveling around Japan with my family, spending time with my wife’s family, and eating all the great food here.
For your questions about differences I would say that different is valued here. Be yourself (foreign) and respectful and any reasonably forward thinking Japanese will think you’re good. Drinking parties are not a thing since corona. My company discourages overtime and hopes employees have healthy work life balance.
My biggest complaint is basically my compensation. My company is very hierarchical and I cant hope to get rich but I’ll always at least be comfortable. I can’t hope to get paid more based on my merit. But, somehow with mine and my wife’s moderate salary we can afford to build a decent house here and have a family, something that seems fairly out of reach living in the states. Also for me, I would have had a hard time entering my field. I figure now is my time to get experience so I can move up later with a different company (don’t tell my company that).
Overall life here is pretty good if a little bit lonely and trying, but I was lucky to find what I did.
Your wife isn’t looking out for your family’s best interest. I am also guessing you are the caretaker and bread winner of the family. Keep your security and good job.
With a spouse visa, and then PR, there’s little reason why you could not work remotely for your US company.
Even better, if they have a branch here.
>-How many hours do you spend in the office a week?
I work from home, so technically 0 hours. But 37.5 hours working. Same at my previous job where I didn’t work from home.
>-Are you spending useless hours in the office that are unproductive just to show you are there?
Nope. If I’m done with all action items, I spend some time studying or testing etc. Or sometimes call it a day.
> -Overtime expected even if unpaid?
Nope. Never had unpaid overtime.
> -Do you need to stay in the office until your boss decides to leave?
Nope. I’m expected to work my hours, but have flexibility.
>-Mandatory drinking with your boss/coworkers after hours? (followed by somehow showing up in the office hungover early the next morning)
Not mandatory.
>-Promotional opportunities have more to due with seniority vs individual results?
It’s a bit of both. Individual results matter.
>-Sick/vacation time frowned upon?
Nope. It’s expected and encouraged.
>-Foreigners will be passed upon if there is a Japanese applicant for a job? (no equal opportunity employment)
Usually not, in my experience. Someone with language skills and permission to work in Japan, will usually have an equal opportunity.
>-Foreigners will never be considered as equals in the workplace?
Has been equal in my experience
>-Resume must be hand written and include a picture of yourself?
Nope. I’ve never handed in a hand written application. Some types of jobs do still want that, but very rare for companies that hire foreign skill
>-Housing discrimination is still a thing?
Yes. It happens, but I’ve never expected it. It’s far less than it once was.
>-How would you compare pay for an equivalent job in the US? (I realize the cost of living in Japan is lower than alot of the US)
Never worked in the US. But the salary is lower here, but so are the costs. A job that pays really well in the US, will be modest in Japan. So it’s less of a pay gap. You can still get a decent pay.
OP, one important thing you didn’t mention: How’s your Japanese?
This will impact what opportunities may or may not be available to you. As a tech person, you can most likely get away with no Japanese, but it depends on the company and the role.
You will be making much less than what you would in the US.
Probably the only reason we are staying in the US is my husband’s job (big tech, engineer). Simply cannot find the opportunities in Japan that we have here. It sucks but it is what it is…hoping to save tons of money and retire in Japan when we’re in our 50s….
Ps saw a comment about working remotely. Which would be amazing but working PDT hours in Japan (my husband did it) was hellish….