I’ve heard that N5 and N4 test you’re basic “Must know” Vocabulary, Grammar, and Kanji. I’ve also heard that even at an N3 level it’s still difficult for some people to read texts and even speak properly. Is there some truth to this or was this just bullshit I heard from some guy on the internet?
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Mate even N1 is nowhere *near* the finish. You’ll learn there *is* no finish.
The more you know, the more you know the less you know.
N3 is where you can start enjoying content outside of textbooks. I’d say this is the point where you feel that your studies bear fruit because you start to be able to wrestle with a lot of content “on your own”.
In regards to “finish” or there “is no finish” – that depends on you. Languages will never stop evolving and if you aim to become a world renowned writer – sure, you might work your whole life towards this kind of goal and even then maybe never achieve it.
I myself feel rather confident when it comes to everything text based. N1? Well, I guess even today I might not get a perfect score but I never liked these kind of skill assessments anyway. But I guess I’d at least breeze through it.
That said, I’d like to have more opportunities speaking, but well, I just don’t live in Japan, thus I only speak rarely. But .. that ain’t my focus. I enjoy my work, I enjoy reading, so that’s what I use Japanese for. And except for maybe some scientific topics I wouldn’t understand in English or German either, I can’t imagine anything that might pose a challenge. So I’d say: I am at a point where I just “live” with the language and no longer “learn” it.
Language learning never ends because when you feel like you’ve reached an endpoint, you need to maintain your skills. Depending on what kind of texts, you will always be humbled again even if you’ve reached N1.
JLPT is only a guideline as well. It doesn’t test speaking either. N3 is somewhere around intermediate level but you can read plenty at upper N3. N1 is an accomplishment for sure, but not the endpoint.
Try not to think too much in levels. Immersion can happen at any level, depends on the material
and how comfortable you feel with unknown vocab and grammar.
If you check out the material listed in the N3 range on natively, I think that gives a pretty decent sense of where a typical N3 leaner is at. Children’s books, slice of life manga etc. start to become accessible, but like capital L literature for example is probably still going to out of reach.
https://learnnatively.com/resources/search/?min=20&max=26&jlpt=n3&type=childrens_book,graded_reader,light_novel,novel,short_story
I’d wager a bet and say most people at an N3 level can’t speak very well. When I was an N3 level, my speaking was decent enough, so most tutors and teachers I spoke with assumed I was N2. I spoke very basic Japanese lol.
At an N3 level, you’ll know enough to read easy manga. I feel like N3 is the launching point for your Japanese journey. This is around the level where you’ll have enough basic grammar that you’ll be able to form decent sentences and conversations. You won’t be able to pick up just any random book and read it, but you may only have 10 or so unknown words per page.
I haven’t taken the N2 yet, but I’m about an N2 level now (passed N3 with 150/180, when passing is 90, in December) and I picked up this random short story horror book aimed at middle school kids and only had about 6-10 unknown words in 13 pages. Less if I don’t count words that I couldn’t understand from context. It really depends on the book though.
I do feel like an N2 level is necessary for a more nuanced understanding of daily Japanese, but yeah the N3 is good starting point, or rather launching point to really being able to use the language.
You can perhaps think of it in terms like:
**N5** – Very limited ‘survival’ Japanese for travellers.
*”Taxi is where?” “How much please?”*
**N4** – Basic ‘functional’ language if you don’t actually need Japanese for your daily activities, e.g. enough to do shopping, make requests, etc.
*”I would like two hamburgers, one without onion and one with pickles.”*
**N3** – Able to live relatively comfortably and talk about most things in your daily life.
*”I’m exhausted. We had a problem with one of our junior staff. He’s totally clueless.”*
**N2** – Able to work relatively smoothly and have more meaningful conversations but complex issues will be beyond you.
*”We will have a budget meeting later so can you get your team to proofread the financial report for errors?”*
**N1** – Able to follow and discuss most topics but will be far from native in regards to things like idioms, slang, technical vocabulary, etc.
*”The sudden revision of the company’s stock valuation has led many analysts to suspect that the Chief Financial Officer might also have been involved in the recent scandal regarding the illegal off-shore accounts.”*
**Note**: Some people reading the above have suggested the higher examples are too ambitious in terms of output. If you are studying outside of Japan and use the language only for input (e.g. viewing media) then this is understandable. If you live in Japan, or work using Japanese, the examples are perfectly reasonable targets for someone who has fully mastered each level.
Got N3 last december.
Yep, im far from understanding everything, though i can enjoy watching japanese shows and read novels while having a dictionary on hand ( my best skill is actually kanji knowledge cause of wanikani).
Speaking though? Thats a skill set i hardly get to practice and which is not needed for jlpt and is my definitive weak point . .
**Only my opinion based on personal and real life pear experience**:
Middle-end of N3 is when most of the pieces come together and you start actually enjoying stuff in Japanese outside of learning resources. It’s like the first big plateau where you can rest for a while before going about your journey to mastery that is still a long way to go.
Side note: bear in mind (and I got this from numerous JP folks) that “a lot” of people with N1 are not that good at actually outputing Japanese (written/oral) because it’s a just a checkbox test that you can cram to some extent and it doesn’t assess your actual ability to **actively** use Japanese. JLPT is cool to know where you’re at in terms of “I know this grammar or kanji” but as much as it can be a motivation to some, it can also be a trap. Try to enjoy the language every step of the way and get real life exposure, that’s how you learn a language.
There is no finish line. Each word you learn just makes the unsolvable puzzle more solvable. Meaning that you’re gonna learn new things in that language
If you had a perfect “I didn’t even break a sweat” score on a particularly difficult N1, and you could speak that well, you’d certainly be at a great point in your studies, but far from fluent.
An N3 (assuming your speaking and writing is as good as your listening and reading) would be enough to get through most daily situations without too much of a hassle. You should be able to read simple books and manga for children and understand simpler slice-of-life anime.
Measuring your Japanese based on JLPT levels is extremely silly IMO. Passing N1 means nothing more than “I’m relatively decent at reading comprehension and I know at least 10k words and most jouyou kanji”.
Compare that to a Japanese person, who knows at least 30k words, at least 2.5k kanji (but more often than not at least 3k, often 4k) etc. You realize that passing N1 means that you’re at best an advanced learner, assuming you’re not one of those people who are extremely over-qualified for N1.
Another comment covered this, but I’ll reiterate it:
N5 I’m convinced purely exists because every beginner series I’ve seen is split in two- or at least, Genki and Minna no Nihongo are. Not sure what the deal with the new Tobira Beginner books is (i.e. is it just the one or if there’ll be a second on as well), but finishing the first book in those series puts you about N5.
N4 is you’ve covered the absolute most basic and necessary grammar points and essential vocabulary. You won’t be able to have a heavy conversation, but you can ask and talk about very basic things.
N3 is when you START being able to consume native materials and get away from textbooks. or more accurately, you can dip your toes into the stuff that native Japanese people read for daily life, and potentially can carry on a decent conversation, assuming you decide to keep your speaking skills up along with your reading prowess.
N2 basically shows that you’re actually somewhat dedicated to the language- you’ll be able to understand a lot… and also find out just how much you DON’T know. It used to be that this was where many people stopped, because it’s often the minimal requirement for actual Japanese company jobs that are willing to hire foreigners, so it’s also sometimes called “Business Japanese level” (though take this with a grain of salt).
N1 is… interesting. On one hand, I’ve heard it called “only for people who are certificate chasers”, because as long as you get a job with N2, there’s often no need to aim for N1. That said, you also have to realize how HUGE the gap is between N2 and N1, at least from my understanding. I’ve heard that the gap in terms of knowledge between N2 and n1 is about the same as from N5 to N2. On top of that… passing N1 isn’t just about Japanese knowledge, its also about knowing how to take the test itself. I suspect this is why N1 is called “certificate chasing”, because when you’re working a full time job you may not have the time to dedicate to something that’s purely for testing, especially in N2 is what got you the job,
But there’s the other side of N1. It can be argued that N1 is where you REALLY start learning Japanese. To put it another way, a lot of the knowledge you’d need for N1 is somewhere around the same amount needed to get into a Japanese high school. It might be the highest level of the test for foreigners, but it is NOT the end step for anyone learning Japanese- very much the opposite. So N1 isn’t fluency, but it DOES prove you’re very, very capable with the language. Heck, a guy I know who has N1 (though he passed it several years ago) was actually asked to do translation work, and so I expect anyone in that line of work needs that skill level.
Seeing things in these terms is always harmful
N3 is the beginning of being able to use Japanese for actual useful *stuff:* reading real everyday material, listening to everyday conversation without much if any issue, watching and enjoying simple media intended for native speakers
It is a start but it is also an end; it is the end of the point where you’re just *learning* the language since before that level you’re not really using Japanese for anything other than studying it. From N3 you can actually use the language for things that are not strictly and inherently related to learning it.
I passed the JLPT N3 with no issues. I have a lot of trouble articulating my thoughts in Japanese, cannot really understand spoken Japanese unless it’s simplified and slowed down, and can only read very simple books aimed at younger audiences without keeping a dictionary open or doing a lot of pre-study of vocabulary lists.
None of my studying was focused on learning for the JLPT specifically, so it’s not as though I passed just because I crammed for the test. So yeah, I’d say it’s just the start. I’d also say, though, that it’s kind of an inflection point, where you need to begin majorly ramping up the amount of books you’re reading, or un-subtitled media you’re watching, in order to keep making progress, rather than just proceeding with textbook style study.
N3 is where you can point at native media (sans capital L Literature and the like) and go “I wanna consume that”. Not that you can understand all of it, but you have the framework and core vocabulary that allows you to translate unknown words and not take ages finishing a 20-minute episode.
The beginning is that word you hear you favorite anime character say and makes you fall in love with the language.
It’s the first time you get inspired by “ganbatte”.
It’s the first time “arigatou” gets to your heart.
The rest is just progress and chasing the horizon.
i think that it’s much more beneficial to use jlpt’s levels in order to organize what you should study and get a main idea of how long you should study to reach that point, not to measure general fluency, to be honest. how many english learners ask things like “i heard that level B1/B2 is actually just the beginning of your english studies??”
Not N1 by a long shot, but honest to god fluent in two languages.
I’d say upper level exams are the starting point, hardly the end. Just think of things like accent/pitch/intonation/nuance etc, not to mention cultural references. All things that go well and beyond any possible language exam. I’d remark that getting any upper level language certification (N2-N1/or CEFR C1/C2) is just the tip of the iceberg.
You want an example? Look at a Cambridge Language exam for C1/C2 level. Those are N1 ish equivalents for English, and while reasonably difficult for a foreigner, they’re not beyond the ability of any average 12-13 year old.
N1 is not even the same level as a freshman high school native Japanese.
With my personal experience, not only do I consider that claim true, but I think it might be a little bit conservative. For the record, I passed N1 in December with a decent but not great score.
Before I continue, I want to stress the transition point happens sometime in the lead-up to taking the N1, not magically after getting the certificate. You need not ever actually take a test for it to happen: it’s just a convenient shorthand for measuring progress.
Before, I’d class everything people are studying as learning *about* the language.
You’re learning the basics of the writing systems and Kanji. You’re familiarizing yourself with the pronunciation. You’re making a base of useful vocabulary.
You’re learning the building blocks, but not really how to *use* the language.
Sometime in the buildup to N1 test taking, you, whether you realize it or not, have all the building blocks. You then switch to actually learning the language. I mean that in the sense of “This sounds natural” vs “If I blurt out these words people will understand”. Free from having to look up every word and Kanji, you’re learning idioms, common literary structures, how to format professional speech. You’re getting accustomed to listening to long passages, you’re learning to think in Japanese on the fly, you’re correcting speech errors and building your own Japanese “voice”
All the stuff covered in N5 to N2 is necessary prepwork. You need it. But it’s prep work. Once you finally understand the basic terminology and reading a book isn’t like pulling teeth, you start your journey of learning to use Japanese.
Video game analogy: N3 is just coming out of the vault in Fallout. Now you have the whole open world to explore.
Video game analogy: N3 is just coming out of the vault in Fallout. Now you have the whole open world to explore.
Just want to know which level I could enjoy Pokémon or Animal Crossing in Japanese
Just think of N5 and N4 level are equivalent to your primary school level education. N3 is middle to high school level. N2 is uni level. N1 is for those who sit tea and ponder over words.
Let’s just focus on vocabulary for a moment. The average well-educated Japanese speaker (and English speaker, for that matter) knows about 30k words. Of these, 10k are used in active conversation, but they will understand and recognize at least 30k if not more.
The N3 exam covers about 4k words. The N1 exam covers about 10k words. Even the N1 isn’t what I would call “fluent,” at least not to the level of a native speaker. By comparison, if you know 10k words in English you would need a dictionary when encountering things like “archipelago,” “constancy,” “trellis,” “assuage,” etc. These are not in the top 10k most common words, but well-educated English speakers will know them.
The JLPT is a joke lol. You can’t measure your understanding of a language by taking a multiple-choice exam that doesn’t even have a speaking section. JLPT is just a checkmark to get a job.
I’d say N1 is the beginning. It’s until that level that studying becomes enjoyable due to being able to consume most native content. Before that, it is still the training wheels.
Disregard the N1-5 or any other measure. Real life language skills aren’t so easily divided into parts. The signs on the street and the people you talk to aren’t going to be a certain level, they’re just going to talk/exist.
If you want to learn how to ‘speak properly’ (I assume you mean have some level of competency in conversation) then you need to start practicing conversation until you’re good at it. That’s the skill you’re going to be working on.
It’s difficult for people at N3 to read texts and have conversations because they never read text or have conversations. They sit on their SRS all day and learn single words and grammar points. You should be able to move beyond this rather quickly (doesn’t mean you get rid of SRS it just means you use it for maybe 15 minutes MAX and then go DO SOMETHING in the language).
Man, I am going into N2 and I feel absolutely limited.
N5 N4 is the beginning stage. It’s quite a paradox, you’ve the biggest learning curve, since you don’t know anything and have everything to learn from the most basics and easiest things to the harder ones.
But it’s also very linear because you can’t avoid textbooks,lessons..etc. You really need to stay motivated
N3 is the intermediate stage where you can finally enjoy and diversify your studies. Play games, read books, listen to song, read [target-language] news/forums, start actively using it in your everyday life…etc, without being lost and having to check every single word/sentence.
That’s the comfy spot
Yes, at N3 you will struggle to understand most material that is targeted towards an adult audience still, some people in these comment are definitely overestimating what an N3 student can do, especially the ones saying you don’t have to practice talking to be good at it lol
It’s a long ride even after N1.
Id say n1 is when you REALLY start to learn japanese. N1 is still the bare minimum
I know a lot of people are saying that N3 feels like the point where you start to break into native materials, and I agree that is true.
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But for me, the biggest point where you feel like you are using native materials and actually beginning to use the language was N2 for me. And when I say use the language, I mean I used native materials as a way to study (and enjoyed it all). Before it felt like what I studied was dictated by textbooks or my limited abilities. At the N2 level, it felt like I was able to pick things that interested me and work on it, knowing I’d be able to grasp most of it after a good amount of effort (depending on the level). So I’d say a very, very solid N3 is the “beginning”.
There is always more to learn.