Anyone else feel like their resources (Duolingo especially) teach a lot of unnecessary loan words? I feel like some of these words must have native equivalents. For example スカート, or am I way off base here and the Japanese really never invented a word for skirts? There are more, but I don’t really need an answer for every single one of them. I just want to know if I am wasting my time learning Japanese English on some of these apps.
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Sadly, Japanese language changed over time a lot of words for their loan counterparts.
Typical example, 写真機 -> カメラ.
Why would you assume there aren’t native equivalents? It’s just more common for some words to use the English derived term, especially in casual speech. Similar thing happens in multiple languages, English is just that ubiquitous
More often these loan words are more common than their native ‘old fashioned’ counterparts.
They’re being taught mainly because yes, they are in fact that common.
As a new learner, I was wondering the same thing.
Thanks for asking, and I appreciate the answers here.
Pain in the ass remembering exactly how I’m supposed to mangle a word from my own language ‘properly’.
Yep super common and not all of them are obvious either
コンセント
Not consent, nope
Wall outlet
I thought it was weird that something as common as restaurant used a loanword? There are some restaurants in Japan that are hundreds of years old.
Just for comparison, here are some of the English words you used in this Reddit post that were originally loaned from French:
* resources
* especially
* unnecessary
* example
* base
* native
* invented
* single
* wasting
Loan words are a perfectly normal part of language. They’re just more noticeable in Japanese because of the katakana.
Loan Words are extremely common in every language. Japanese just makes it very apparent when a word is loaned because it’s typically written in katakana and, since English is a huge source of import, they will typically resemble an English word you already know.
Just because we use the words “cafè” or “kindergarten” in English doesn’t mean we ever lacked a word or phrase to describe a coffee shop or a children’s school before we adopted those specific words. We use them because they’re shorthand/more aesthetic words describing things we already had.
I understand your point but that may be a bad example since ‘skirts’ aren’t really a part of traditional Japanese clothing
You would be surprised at the loan words in your language, specially if English is your first language.
As if English isnt made up out of more that 50% loan words from French/Latin ^^
But 2 things. First… burn DuoLingo. Second, if you know English, just learn from a source that wont teach em to you all the time. For example if you learn with a textbook like Genki… you wont be forced to do the same loan word a hundred times 😉
It’s not the app, it’s the language itself. And yes, this drives me up a wall too.
In many cases, a Japanese word and a loan word are both used but they mean slightly different things now. Like a hotel vs a ryokan. A toilet vs a benjo. A kissaten vs a cafe.
“What’s with all the loanwords?” ーasked every widespread language to have ever existed.
No one recognizes half the loanwords we use in a single sentence. In japanese they simply stand out more to you because you recognize the english ones.
As a spanish speaker ill let you know, itd freak you out how many spanish loanwords you guys use on a daily basis without even realizing theyre borrowed from spanish.
Hell, even we use japanese loanwords and think nothing of it (or even better, we dont even know theyre japanese): tsunami, typhoon, karaoke, emoji, zen, samurai, ninja, karate, judo, origami, manga, anime.
Also, loanwords in japanese are generally more common than their native counterparts. Theyre in vocabulary lists because they ARE used.
Loan words are a “nuisance” because the writing system is tough so you noticed it much more than any other language
It never ceases to amuse me when native English speakers are shocked to discover how many English loanwords are used in other languages. Well, not just English, I guess, but there tend to be a *lot* of words taken from English.
But in your example it makes sense Japanese wouldn’t have its own word for skirts, since they’re not a part of traditional Japanese attire.
The loan words are a good indication of things the Japanese had no concept of before being introduced to the big wide world. It can give you an insight into their psyche
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Loan words are super common and the language is trending in the direction of more loanwords.
Theres a video from a couple years ago where a Japanese guy got on a phonecall and spoke almost exclusively in loanwords as an experiment and she could understand him:
https://youtu.be/EPqJByNllxk
The whole channel is actually pretty great if you’re looking for more simple Japanese content.
I think it’s important to keep in mind that loan words often have a certain flavor compared to their native Japanese and/or Chinese-derived counterparts. Most Japanese speakers, in most general situations, would say that kango (Chinese-derived vocabulary) feel erudite or stuffy or technical. So, you could say 飲食店 or 化粧室, but these may sound overly pedantic to the average Japanese person compared to レストラン or トイレ.
It’s also worth noting that, many Japanese folks I have spoken to also like the flavor that katakana loanwords give, because it sounds hip or cosmopolitan. I use this to my advantage as a non-native—but, it’s important to remember that loanwords from English *are not English*. Learning how to write and pronounce katakana words correctly is still learning—for example, writing or speaking レストラント or トイレト (cf. トイレ、トイレット) will give your language big noob energy, because レストラント and トイレト are simply not correct.
Practice loan words. They can be incredibly useful. Learn their synonyms too, as a variety of words—including loanwords—can be used to describe similar nouns. Just keep in mind the context and connotation of those words.
Yes, they did not have a word for “skirt”. They didn’t invent skirts. Native Japanese words for clothes refer to traditional Japanese clothing which fell out of style quickly after Western clothes became commonplace. That’s why people often use 洋服, literally “western clothes”, as a general term for all clothing. Even the term for “belt”, 帯(おび), is often not used unless referring to that of a traditional garment.