I’m working on a start-up and I work 14-16 hours a day usually. I enjoy it but it does get stressful and tiring but people keep telling me that overwork can lead to all these health deficiencies.
I want to work as I’m building something for myself and the society and taking an example from the average ‘salaryman’ I want to understand what is it that they do that keeps their longevity so high.
Edit: I understand that life expectancy is a factor of things like genetics, infant mortality, quality of healthcare, disease preparedness and response etc. That considered, I’m looking for responses that correlate lifestyle choices despite overwork and the impact on longevity (if not necessarily Life Expectancy as the word technically means).
https://www.reddit.com/r/japan/comments/14tuy42/how_do_japanese_have_the_highest_life_expectancy/
31 comments
Work is good for aging; one of the worst things you can do for your lifespan is retire young (unless you’re super productive in retirement which the vast majority are not).
What you eat is just more important than the amount of work
They eat less and way healthier and walk more. Americans eat like children and drive everywhere.
Sounds like a complicated question. Probably need to think about health care, diet and drinking, how much they actually work, genetics, lots of things to consider.
Because most of them are not overworked – even if they spend long hours at the office. If you believe every hyped thing in the media, then there are also nothing but Pokemon planes, Doraemon buses and fully automated monorails in Japan.
nenkin fraud may or may not help with old age statistics.
Japanese work very long is quite outdated. Very few work 12 hours a day besides certain professions nowadays
As for life expectancy, Japanese elderly men who indeed over worked most of their life have the 7th highest life expectancy, elderly women have the 3rd highest life expectancy, you can argue the difference in ranking is because of overwork elderly men did. Also other factors such as low infant mortality rate is way more influential to life expectancy. Japan has one of the lowest infant mortality rate and relatively accessible health care,
so unless Japan fail because of other factors such as suicides, Japan will have one of the highest life expectancy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
Thanks to their daily dose of StrongZero
Lots of walking / non sedentary lifestyle, national healthcare system, better diet than the western world, etc.
Other possible factors, a greater sense of community has also been shown to be prominent in areas with a lot of centenarians, IIRC.
With regard to work, I think that there may be some kind of sense of duty to an occupation intertwined with one’s identity and self-worth that gives them a purpose or a reason to keep on living. Its hard to quantify this, but its something I’ve not seen much in “the west” where retired ppl that no longer need to work will actively seek out work well into their 70s and 80s.
The people in Okinawa have the longest life expectancy in general – so you average their life expectancy as part of general Japan life span and you still get a high number. Okinawans aren’t stressed.
Japan has more women than men (100 W to 94 M) and considering many older women (those over 50) do not or never have worked, they also have less stress – so the general “women worldwide live longer than men” adds to the higher number.
Potentially the numbers are skewed as there are cases of people dying and not being discovered for 1-10 years, yet they were on the population rolls as being alive.
You have overlooked the quantity of calories they burn per day, and they frequently eat simple and light meals. I used to live with a relative in Japan, and the amount of walking and cycling I did each day was absurd compare to where I live.
And, in fact, I do crash into the Light Pole because my leg is cramping; fortunately, several Japanese people arrive to rescue and my cousin keep laugh at me. LoL what a memory
Literally, my Japanese cousin and I are cycling from Edogawa city to Shibuya, and yet she told me is near.
14-16 hour days – if you are working ON a start up meaning YOUR startup then it’s a very different situation vs working that long for someone else imho.
I find it very hard to be actually working those hours.
I think the amount of exercise that’s just a natural part of their lives is a part of it. Even standing up while riding the subway/bus is better than just sitting in a car
The concept that Germans and Japanese work long hours is quite outdated.
These days Japan is pretty middle of the pack when it comes to both work hours and suicide rates amongst developed countries
Honestly, After living in Japan for 3 years, and coming from companies in the USA. Japanese people are the biggest cry babbies when it comes to work. I can’t speak to any other countries other than Japan and the USA, but while there may be SOME people in japan that over work, the VAST majority do not.
One thing that rarely seems to get mentioned in these discussions is the regular and really extensive health checks that a lot of companies require from their workers. I assume it lowers their insurance costs.
Way more extensive than it’s typical in most countries. This greatly increases the chance of picking up cancers and other health issues early on, which is one of the best things you can do to prolong average lifespan.
I’m always surprised by the diet here and how it still seems to be healthy. Ramen, lots of red meat, lack of vegetables and salads but still seen as healthy. I love it though…
Okinawans have the highest life expectancy, and they pull up the average by a bit. They have a very healthy diet as well as a way of living.
Low-fat diet prevents cardiovascular diseases which is one of the biggest causes of deaths. Traditional Japanese food is pretty low in fat, however you’d have to mind the salt intake because it’s quite high. Traditional Okinawan food is healthier.
Probably just not eating too much.
What I REALLY want to know is how salarymen I see in SUITS can make this little jogging run thing they do WITHOUT sweating when its > 30 outside with 2000% humidity.
It’s puzzling.
Very little sugar in the diet. Food regulations are very strict.
Lots of walking.
Lots of preventitive care. Such as free yearly health check-ups / scanning. If you push hard enough you can get an MRI / CT for just about anything and costs < $100
No barrier to healthcare. No financial risk when receiving healthcare.
Safety / Generally not living in fear. Financial security. Job security.
All weapons are illegal, virtually no right to self defense. So violence isn’t really a thing, because you are always in the wrong.
Highly educated police force. No rampant murdering of citizens.
Highly disciplined education system. No kid is lead to believe that he is some kind of disrespected Napoleon Bonaparte, and murders all classmates in retaliation.
Legal sex work. (Probably could be improved / better regulated)
Fairly reasonable social support systems (Probably could be improved)
Strict drug laws, lack of abusable OTC or perscription drugs. Alcohol being the main exception.
And like most others say, the overwork / stress is greatly exaggerated. If you are working 14-16 hours days, find a new job.
I think it owes to a better healthcare system and less violent crime than world average. Not sure we keep it that way in the future.
When you get to a certain age, they give you full health check EVERY year.
Healthcare.
Low rates of obesity.
You’d be surprised what people can get away with (smoking, alcohol, stress, etc.) if they aren’t fat and can visit a doctor before an emergency room.
Free yearly health checks, cheap medical care, low obesity, eating lots of fish and a lot more walking/riding bicycles all help I’m sure
Japanlife may be a better subreddit for your question – you’ll get more responses from people actually in Japan and fewer internet erm, “fans” of Japan who have never been there and only know anything about the country through reputation, but are nonetheless very willing to speak authoritatively about the place.
Likewise, any time you ask a general community of randos a health question, you’re going to get a bunch of uninformed people’s claims in support of whatever issue is important to them, not an actual scientific analysis. The only honest answer any of us can give you is, “it’s complicated, and probably involves a lot of factors.” So in that light, it’s complicated, and probably involves a lot of factors. Here are a few I thought up off the top of my head.
* Japan is not a car culture, so people in Japan tend to not be quite as sedentary as people in some other western countries.
* Many (though not nearly as many as internet commentators would like you to think) Japanese people have better diets than many people in western societies, but anyone who claims your typical salaryman is eating a widely varied diet full of complex carbohydrates and the full range of vitamins and minerals is BSing you.
* The popular Japanese response to work stress is alcohol, which might mean the actual causes of death might be hidden and labeled under other causes
* The generation that became elderly in time to give Japanese people a reputation for being long-lived didn’t work the same way new recruits in the 80s did.
* Classic “Japan, Inc.” style massive OT with work stress was counter-balanced by guaranteed lifetime employment. When Koizumi got rid of that, he created a system that didn’t necessarily reduce the hours but did reduce a lot of future certainty and career growth. The people who came into work at that time are probably only just starting to retire (if they can afford to) and the vast majority are still too young. We just plain don’t have data for what working in Japan today will do to you over your lifetime.
* Stress can kill you, but it’s only going to clearly be the cause of death in the most extreme of cases (much the same could be said for a jelly doughnut or a big ole’ salty bowl of ramen). When it comes to stress, I think quality of life should be considered more than just how long you expect to live. I tend to think of it more like, “Do I want to spend my one precious life making sure my hanko stamp is tilted in deference to my immediate manager on the report showing our company’s revenue grew by *x*%, of which I am guaranteed to never see any portion as reward for my work or as payment for my overtime, in my unpaid overtime, as opposed to doing anything at all that brings joy and happiness to people who matter to me?”
* Depending on which country you’re comparing outcomes to, you’re almost certainly comparing to one of the worst healthcare systems in the world, and while Japanese medicine has its flaws, it’s good enough to make sure a large chunk of the public doesn’t die too much earlier than they need to.
Plumber from Tokyo here
People may live longer but you don’t call it life.
Better live a healthy shorter life.
Staying in bed and forgetting even your family in an elderly home for the last ten years of your life is not really living.
Stats say life is longer and health has improved.
We here say that is bullshit!
With all preservatives and chemical poison additives and lifetime of stress and abuse is not real living.
The key to longevity is apparently strong zero, cigarettes, and ramen
Not all Japanese are overworked to that to level.
They measure the waist of employees and get basically penalised if it’s over a certain amount
They have extremely good elderly care. Over there they are supposed to have their best years when at the retirement home.