Got dismissed from my job due to disorganization and stress. Literally the only reasons why I got fired. In fact their last parting words to me was to find a ‘less stressful job.’ Was given the typical 30 days notice but looking deeper into Japanese labor laws, found the company I was dismissed from had to take steps to do everything but dismissal. Training relocation, etc.
Okay, after I get all the official paperwork, I do the Hello Work thing and go to the labor board and lay our everything that happened in the month of June. High stress job, they were constantly moving the field post, any help that I asked for was half assed and they made their choice to dismiss on a day where I was so stressed from all the BS, I had a breakdown.
Labor inspection says let’s do mediation and ask for three months salary. Okay, cool. I fill in that paperwork and was told mediation was voluntary, so my old job could just give me the bird if they didn’t want to mediate (which they did.)
Labor inspection sent me a register letter saying mediation fell through, the company didn’t want to mediate but they suggested I get a lawyer. I have consolation with one this up coming week, to see what my options are.
It feels like the system is set up for you to not fight for your rights. After all that stress and heartache at that job, however, I’m not going down with out a fight.
19 comments
The system is set up to keep most cases out of court. It’s not US.
Do get a lawyer, start a civil action, the judge will push both parties to mediation, if that fails, then you get a ruling.
P.S. I hope you’re going for consultation, not consolation 👋🏻
[removed]
Get a lawyer and proper consulting quickly. Assuming you are/were a 正社員 you cannot be dismissed that easily. Especially not with such a flimsy reason. In those cases even 3 months pay seems rather on the lower end of things.
The key advice in Japan is don’t agree and don’t sign anything at first and until you have sought legal advice.
Sounds like you signed and left and that will weaken your position as it shows your consent. But lawyer will advise what’s realistic.
Also, depends what type of contract you were on – fixed term, permanent, outsourced, etc.
The bad actors will only learn if they’re called up.
But this is a problem throughout the world… legal decisions can only be gotten if the petitioner has the money and energy to fight for their rights :/ it certainly doesn’t make it right. Sounds like a pretty clear cut case so hopefully a lawyer will take it on contingency.
Another feature(still not sure if it’s good or bad… abuse of it is rife in the us so it needs to be nuanced) is punitive charges not being much of a thing here
Call the labour Unions. They will help you. The same happened to me N and my old company paid me up andI got a new and better job with better pay. If you live in kanto call JAM labour Unions, their offices are in Shibakoen near Mita Line Shibakoen Station, in Tokyo! Don’t give up!!
You haven’t a leg to stand on if you have signed and left the job already. You should have held out for them to fire you with severance.
You can report your situation to Hello Work and they will agree to pay you the unemployment insurance right away instead of waiting three months(policy for those that resign by choice).
The labor board can only offer consultation and perhaps send a written advisory letter to the employer, but neither is of any benefit to you if you have resigned.
The lawyer can also be of no help at this stage, unless you are willing to engage in a long drawn out and costly process in the courts.
Sounds like you’d be better off just using thay energy to find a better place to work at.
In one of my previous companies, there was a guy who pretty much just went to the office, chatted with everyone, and went home. One day, I asked another guy what’s the deal with him. And aparently, they tried to fire him, he sued and won. The company had to take him back and even paid for the interim period.
I would think it is a good idea to heed the advice of the labor inspector, and arrange for a consultation with a lawyer who specializes in employment/labor issues; to have a closer look at your contract, and to advise you on your rights and what some of the possible outcomes could be.
I think one thing you need to ascertain and be clear about is: if you are a permanent employee (saishain (正社員)), or if you are a contract employee (keiyakushain (契約社員)). Depending on how long you have been with them, it is possible to be a contract employee with an “indefinite term”/permanent contract (*mukirodo keiyakyu (無期労働契約)*). Some people who have this believe they are/have become a permanent employee, but it isn’t the case.
If you are a contract employee, your employer is only required to give you 30 days notice – regardless if you have a fixed term contract, or an “indefinite term”/permanent contract.
If you are a permanent employee, all of the following conditions *must* be met before your employer can terminate you:
* The employee is not deemed “necessary” for business operations
* The company demonstrates making an effort to avoid termination
* The company’s selection of personnel is deemed “appropriate”
* The company has given sufficient explanation to the employee
​
Over the years with them, have you received any promotions? I am to understand (but might be mistaken) that one element of a contract employee is that they can’t be promoted – so, if you have never been promoted, there is a good chance you are *not* a permanent employee. But please do consult with a lawyer for accurate information and advice.
Japan is a single party consent jurisdiction; as long as one person knows they’re being recorded, it’s legal. Use your phone to record absolutely every verbal interaction you have with the employer.
> It feels like the system is set up for you to not fight for your rights.
It sounds like the system is perfectly set up for you to fight for your rights, which you are. The only thing you could have done better is not accepted the dismissal and started fighting it earlier. If you signed / agreed to resign you put yourself in a much worse position but it isn’t hopeless. Good luck.
This is the way things work in most countries.
The process is generally that first you need to follow the company’s internal process. In this case that’s done. They fired you.
Next the labour office will try to get people to sit down and talk it out. Sometimes there’s a misunderstanding or something that can easily be resolved. In this case they’ve refused to talk. That’s not a good look, particularly in Japan.
Note that up until this stage it has cost you nothing but time and transport costs. That’s part of the reason things are none here. It isn’t to discourage you from fighting for your rights, it’s to try and reach a resolution without costing you an arm and a leg at a time when you’re unemployed and presumably short on cash. In effect these first two stages favour you heavily as you are assumed to have lots of free time right now, while the company has to take an employee away from whatever they’re doing to come to mediation.
The next step up is talking to a lawyer and the lawyer writing a stern note to the company telling them all the ways they’ve broken the law and that they’re about to be bent over in court and spanked until they cry for mommy. Normally at this stage you set your compensation outrageously high. They had a chance for 3 months compensation. Now you want more, a year of pay, your position reinstated, and a pony… okay, probably not a pony, but you could run it past the lawyer.
The company will often at this stage see that you’re serious and negotiate for some lesser sum. If you can agree here the legal fees are often minimal, and the lawyer will often agree to take a chunk of the settlement as fees. If your lawyer won’t do this then shop around a bit. If you keep getting lawyers refusing this payment option then it means that you’re missing something and the lawyer doesn’t think you’ll win.
The final option is court. This gets very expensive very fast. Again, if your lawyer thinks that you have a good chance of winning they may agree to a “no foal, no fee” arrangement where they get paid from the judgement and only if they win.
I know you’re feeling stressed and like the system is stacked against you, but again, it is important to remember that the system is designed to limit your expenses up front while trying to get an acceptable resolution. The company here is just playing “chicken”. They’re betting on you being tired and stressed, and not pushing things further.
I would note that at this point if you have some medical documentation attesting that you were stressed out and should have been on sick leave this case becomes a lawyer’s wet dream. Not only is firing you for being sick a clear violation of Japanese labour law, but it also reframes the company’s refusal to negotiate as malicious rather than just uncooperative.
Try to document everything as much as possible. Remember that the law runs on evidence, and without evidence you can find yourself in a position where you know what happened, but you can’t prove it to the judge. The judge can only consider what can be proven or is agreed to have happened. Anything else is just allegations, and can actually make you look very bad indeed. Don’t say anything that you can’t back up with proof.
Again, the company seems to be clearly in the wrong here (unless you aren’t telling us the whole story), and you should be able to find a lawyer willing to take this on a “no foal, no fee” basis.
The law tends to side with employees in Japan. Cheer up. You’ll be fine.
How did you find your lawyer?
Sounds like one of the many thousands of Eikawa companies that regularly break employment laws and get away with it because no one really has the energy nor money to fight them.
Do they have any history of warning you about the disorganization / reason they are firing you? For example, written warnings? Generally they need this kind of proof of reason to fire you – showing they warned you, put you on an improvement plan, etc.
It’s actually pretty simples, not a maze 🙂 Went through something similar earlier this year. In the end the company threw in the towel and paid the severance I asked for (1 year).
Did you get your “statement of reasons of dismissal”? It’s pretty important since you were not fired on the spot but with the 30 day notice. You’re legally entitled to this and any labour tribunal or court case is based on that document.
You did the labour board but they’re pretty useless as you found out.
For fixed-term contract, it’s even harder to get one dismissed than permanent employee. They need to pay your remaining contract out.
Next step is to find a lawyer that’ll check your case, and if he’s a fit, you’ll get a retainer (mine cost 200k+tax). He’ll draft a petition to the Labour tribunal and that starts the whole thing.
The tribunal can go on for a few months and many companies try to settle privately at this point. At this point you’ll ask them to pay your remaining contract out and maybe plus 1-2 months to cover your costs (retainer plus success cut).
If the judgement from the tribunal doesn’t rub you or your previous company the right way, either of you can petition a real court. You might get reinstated and if they accept that, all pending salaries +3% interest will be paid out to you. Also your contact won’t be renewed… 😀
Court can take a few years, you’ll need to be able to support yourself during that time. That’s one of the reasons the tribunal exists and is quick.
The payouts from actual courts are much higher than labour tribunal but never punititive nor will you get the opposition to pay your lawyer fees.
Fight it!! My DMs are open I’ve experienced power harassment at work here I know just how awful it can be. Just know if they haven’t followed due diligence the law is 1000000% on your side!! 👍