Today at work the other teachers (Japanese) in my (American) grade and I met to go over student applications for special electives they wish to take next school year. While the deadline to submit the applications was this morning, it was decided at a previous meeting that students needed to get special permission to apply for certain electives by the end of last week. The problem is, I didn’t understand what had been said at that meeting and didn’t tell my students about the special permission.
In the end, everything worked out and the students are going to get the electives they applied for. But it could easily have gone the other way, and watching my colleagues fly into a 20 minute panic and scramble to fix the problem my mistake created was mortifying and demoralizing.
This is only one example of many. When I don’t understand what someone has said, it’s an easy fix -just ask them to repeat it or say it a different way. But the problem is a lot of the time I think I understood everything perfectly, so I don’t see a need to ask for clarification. Then I run out and make a mistake like the one I made today.
I know that I’ll get better. My Japanese is improving every day (somewhere between N2 and N1, I would think), and I’m currently being bombarded with a lot of new, situation-specific vocabulary that I’ll recognize the next time I see or hear it. But right now, I just feel so useless. Instead of sharing the workload, I’m adding to it.
​
Edited to add: Someone asked if I’d just assumed I was between N2 and N1. In a manner of speaking, I guess I did. I passed the 能力試験 2級 in 2010 and received my degree in education from Nihon University, so I don’t think I’m overestimating. But having never taken the test since they switched the system, it’s possible I am.
36 comments
This feeling will never go away.
The best thing you can do is keep in mind that, no matter the language, even native speakers don’t know or can’t always recall the most appropriate word in any given situation.
As for work, it’s your responsibility to ask about any words or phrases that were not understood.
> a lot of the time I think I understood everything perfectly, so I don’t see a need to ask for clarification. Then I run out and make a mistake like the one I made today.
> somewhere between N2 and N1
*bruh…*
I mean. You need to realize at some point that you didn’t understand. At least get in the habit of double checking with someone
My advice is to get things in writing. If nobody else is taking meeting minutes, you should take your own notes, and afterword send them around to the participants, asking them to check for missing or incorrect info. This will have the side benefit of greatly speeding your Japanese learning.
Oww my man. Did you just assume your japanese level without taking the jlpt? I will grab some popcorn and watch comment section slaughter you now.
For the not understanding shit. That happens to me as wel during my baito. What I did was, as soon as I got my job. I mastered the basics, stayed for extra 10-20 minutes after my shift was over to ask questions on how to do things or ask more detailed explanations. During my shifts, instead of staying and waiting for customers, I did extra stuff that nobody asked me to do such as cleaning, mopping, re-organizing stuff to make space. Etc, after like going 2 months like this. Everyone now respects and compliments me on everything. So whenever i do a mistake now, “like I was late for the first time last week and everyone was surprised because i was always showing up on time.” There’s no problem whatsoever, and they understand that my mistakes or showing up late was a genuine “shouganai” situation.
So my suggestion would be stay extra time, go beyond your job description, get involved. Show them you’re doing 140%. Then whenever you make unavailable mistake. It’s fine, “hopefully”
are you sure you’re N2? this ain’t a language issue, this is your skill issue at communication
You should confirm the important points with your boss individually after each meeting to make sure you understood everything and check if there is anything you missed. Not doing so does a disservice to your students (or clients if you switch jobs).
I’d say the fact that you’re hyper-sensitive to still lacking a specific skill is incredibly beneficial in the long run. Because you’ll no doubt be aware of that – and thus focus on tackling it – for lots of things, not just language ability.
Great to see someone working on improving their skillset and not blaming others for the hurdles in their way. Kudos.
That said – gotta admit, just by reading your post I have a hard time thinking that you’re ‘somewhere between N2 and N1’. Just sayin’…
Is there an opportunity to ask to confirm specific deadlines that you should be aware of at the end of a meeting or something?
Just say you want to double check what important things need to be done by a specific date. TBH not even necessarily a language problem, I’m sure some native speakers would benefit from a quick recap of important deadlines too.
I’ve been here on and off in different capacities for years, and currently work at a university where it’s 90% Japanese. Mostly I get by because I’m doing a lot of work by myself and take the group meetings I attend as opportunities to take notes on new vocab (mostly scientific terminology), so I have the same issue, I frequently ask for clarification.
Years ago I thought I was around N3, except I failed JLPT at that level twice, by a couple of points each time. I’ve not taken one since (haven’t had the heart to fail a third time yet), so I’ve no idea what level I’m actually at.
On the other hand, I know one person who majored in Japanese in University, and has been here over 20 years who has near perfect Japanese, I can’t even imagine getting to that point before retirement.
All good man. You aren’t a robot. Mistakes happen. You will get the hang of it eventually
This isn’t necessarily a Japanese thing, it’s a meetings thing. Any meeting with 5+ people you leave and then talk to people individually about how they understood things and you’ll get 5 different versions of the meeting outcomes. My tip is to circulate an email summarising the important points and action items and invite other people to add and comment on the list as needed. It will help you summarise important information and make potential misunderstandings black and white.
I had that too. each person choose different words to explain something.
You’re humble and doing your best to improve, and not blaming others. Japanese people respect this sort of introspection, diligence and humility. Keep at it mate, you will be better sooner than you think.
This is why I make sure any meeting minutes that are necessary are in writing. It allows you to confirm the information later, although you should definitely read it while listening to the meeting just to be sure.
Wait, how are you getting meetings where printouts are not handed out? It seems that once I got into real Japanese work there are always printouts as well as just listening to the meeting. That could be due to some people sleeping during said meeting, but I assumed it was a “whole Japan” thing since it’s happened at multiple workplaces now.
[removed]
I make mistakes in my native language all the time. You shouldn’t worry so much about making mistakes in your secondary language.
you understand that sometime you don’t understand stuff perfectly, just do double check everytime with the others… unless they refure to share, shouldn’t be a problem in this case.
確認 for important details. even if you understood it, repeat it and better in writing.
misunderstanding happens in all languages.
I’m getting close to retirement, so I’ve been a clinician and teacher for many years, and I was and am pretty good at it (and the older I get, the better I was). I learned the most and had the most challenging fun working with people that worried about whether they were good enough, knowledgeable enough, or skilled enough for their students or clients. You will be fine because you won’t make the same mistake again (at least not in the same way). I would be concerned if you didn’t worry about it—. Things will work out, focus on the solution, not the problem. 😉
Take written notes and confirm everything.
I go through the exact same thing with my Japanese bf, except we speak in English. He is pretty fluent in English, so I take what he says, and I think I’ve understood it. Then, when I turn around, he’s telling me that I didn’t do what he wanted because I misunderstood him. But I perfectly understood the words he used at the time, so I didn’t think for a second that there was any miscommunication, to then get clarification for. I don’t really know how to go about it, since it’s impossible to know when what he said didn’t correctly portray what he meant. How am I supposed to correctly perceive what he meant, when I can’t read his thoughts? I can only go based off of the words that he speaks out loud to me. I know that, with time, we will just have gone through so many specific experiences to where we will just know and not require a ton of communication, but we are simply not at that point yet. It’s super hard…
Don’t think it’s a language issue
This happens in your native language too! I have had meetings in English with our American branch and people don’t take notes and do things wrong or forget things.
Take notes and send the notes around to check if they’re correct.
The word for minutes is 議事録 ぎじろく
If someone already takes notes, ask for a copy and read it.
Sounds like a general problem with how meetings are done, not necessarily a Japanese language problem. These kinds of things happen often even amongst native speakers… a lot.
When I run meetings, I make it a point to have a shared live document that all participants can write on. As we make decisions on action items and key deadlines, we collaboratively bullet them down on the shared live doc in real time. This shares the load of taking meeting notes and as the meeting progresses, everyone has a clear understanding of what’s going on. When something on the doc seems unclear or incorrect, someone can bring it up during the meeting so that particular point can be clarified on the doc in real time. The doc becomes the ground truth that is constantly scrutinized by all participants for accuracy and clarity.
There are some caveats including the possibility of non-tech-savvy members scoffing at this approach which has happened to me. I’m not sure if your fellow teachers would be down with this idea, but almost all people who joined my meetings have really appreciated this approach.
Record meetings. That’s what I used to do, so I could double check later.
Meeting minutes.
My boss always makes one so everyone can read it.
Language is hard, most people in their native language seem to struggle. In English I can say “I can have it done earliest by the Xth but if we change something by Yth”, “Okay you’ll have it done by the Yth”. Yeah, wrong in two ways there mate.
In other words, the more fluent you get the more tiny and annoying the ambiguities become.
This isn’t necessarily a problem of your lack of Japanese but a lack of your understanding and a lack of confirmation by your colleagues.
My Japanese is probably the same level as yours. Passed N2 in 2014. I don’t understand 100% that’s going on in some meetings and I don’t have to. However if it’s something that concerns me and I need to take action then I confirm when what and how.
I don’t have anything profound or particularly useful to say, but you’re doing great! It’s cool and impressive that you operate in a work environment that doesn’t use your native language. Don’t beat yourself up too much about a bad day or misunderstanding something. It’s all worked out now. We all learn and grow every day:)
Now be me at n5 here in japan. You’re just being hard on yourself
Now be me at n5 here in japan. You’re just being hard on yourself
I grew up in an area of America with a large immigrant population, and all I can say is, it’s a common problem. I’ve had many very talented colleagues who weren’t the best at English who would have more trouble communicating or who might misunderstand or miss some details.
As others have stated, diligent note taking can help. You also would benefit from just asking for help. Make a good colleague or superior (上司) friend, and just regularly have check ins with them after meetings to make sure you’re on the same page as everyone else. They’ll probably quickly pick up on the things you’re more likely to miss, and know when to give you extra pointers. It’s okay to know what your own weaknesses and shortcomings are, and strategically ask for help. I think this is a 周りにもっと頼るといい situation
A Japanese boss once told me his aim was 80% fluency in English because if he got to 90% people would forget he wasn’t 100% fluent and stop cutting him some slack when he made the inevitable mistakes.
I’m in a similar boat and sympathize. My Japanese is probably about the same (passed N2 20 years ago, never bothered to take N1 but could probably pass without much difficulty), but am nowhere near native level proficiency and I’m constantly getting lost at work.
This in some ways is the worst level of Japanese to have: Good enough that Japanese colleagues treat you like one of them, but not good enough to be able to easily cope with everything that flows from that.
I’ve got foreign coworkers with very weak Japanese who have it extremely easy as a result. They don’t get roped into jobs and tasks that require Japanese, so they have very little administrative duties, never sit on committees (let alone be put in charge of them), are never put in charge of organizing anything etc etc. All that stuff comes to me. A lot of that stuff is easy for my Japanese colleagues so they don’t see it as much of an imposition when they add another one, but when it involves a lot of communicating in Japanese, a lot of navigating complex social relations that are opaque to me without stepping on anyone’s toes, or trying to understand massive organizational charts or 50 page PDF docs with information conveyed in a manner that seems chaotic and incomprehensible to me…..it just drives me nuts.
And yeah, screwing things up because you missed some detail is a constant source of stress. Even if you don’t screw things up, its just the knowledge that you might have missed doing something you were expected to do but wasn’t even on your radar that gnaws at you (“Hey, why didn’t you do XYZ? Your name was clearly stated as being responsible for that on the small graph on page 562 of the PDF document that was sent as one of the 35 mass emails you recieved last Tuesday sent to everyone in the organization with no indication it contained anything of relevance to you” type emails are something I dread).
It’s normal mate, welcome to being an immigrant, I bet the millions that live in your country (and mine) battle this shit with the much more difficult and complex English language. They battle through it, so shall you.