My Japanese wife’s grandpa passed away yesterday. His home is in a small mountain village where probably no foreigner has ever been to, also almost none in that village knows we are married. The funeral ceromony will be held in that village and my wife does not want me to come because people of that village is not familiar with foreigners. I am not buddhist but I do not have a problem doing buddhist rituels for the funeral. My wife is worrying I will have a bad experience there just because I am a foreigner, but I want to be with them and support my father in law as much as I can. I am not sure how my father in law thinks about it. I can speak Japanese fluently but have never been to a Japanese funeral. Has anyone of you have been to a Japanese funeral? Will I be the “mendokusai gaijin” if I go there?
49 comments
Just respect your grieving wife’s wishes. Why would you push this and cause more conflict than necessary? Most likely this is a really difficult time for her and you want to make it harder
Support her in other ways and get out of the way.
Respect your wife’s wishes, but also maybe talk to the father-in-law as he might change your wife’s mind.
Yes, you will probably draw more attention to yourself than the deceased. I would go with the flow and sit this one out. You’re not missing much. Go with her on a special trip in the spring and meet everyone then. Everyone will be in a much better frame of mind to get to know you.
Sorry for your loss
>my wife does not want me to come because people of that village is not familiar with foreigners
Then whether to go or not will need to be resolved between you and your wife
>Will I be the “mendokusai gaijin” if I go there?
that depends on you behave
I will say this about the only funeral I’ve attended here: I ended up seiza for what must have been an hour and when it came time to come up one by one and make offerings my legs were totally useless and I may as well have been crippled. I waved people ahead of me until I could stand again. Not a pleasant experience…
I know you mean well but don’t be a pain in the ass.
Don’t go. You’ll draw more attention than the deceased I think and like it or not you’ll be terrifying to them, so it’s better to just clarify with your wife that you’re more than happy to go but if she thinks you shouldn’t then don’t.
Easy.
Support from a distance?
Do you want to go there or support them?
>His home is in a small mountain village where probably no foreigner has ever been to…
What are the odds of that in 2023?
stay home.
it’s your wife’s call.
If you want to support your FIL, talk to him on the phone and offer your condolences.
My wife’s grandpa passed away couple years ago, I didn’t attend the funeral, her family is completely fine about it. But I guess it’s to each of his own.
If no foreigner has ever been to that village, it means you never visited the grandpa at his home? Did you actually ever meet him ?
My condolences to your family.
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This is such an intensely personal (or family) thing that I have no idea how you will parse the various pieces of advice you will get, and stitch them together into a plan of action. But one thing I would humble suggest you consider – maybe that family knows the lay of the land the best; and maybe them asking you to stay at home is super painful, but unavoidable, for them. They probably want you to be there, too. So it’s possible that they are doing 心を鬼にする and trying to find the best way forward for all involved.
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It’s possible that the best way you can show your support to your wife, and father in law, is to regretfully respect their suggestion.
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A no-win situation to be sure. But try to do your best, decide with love and affection for your wife and in-laws, and I’m sure they will respect what you decide in the end.
Unrelated but kinda related, my mom wanted to come to support me when I gave birth to my kid but I told her no. I’d rather be alone. Because if she was here I would have to worry about her and think about her comfort, what she’d eat, how she’d feel. I just wanted to spend time focusing on my baby, her presence would be distracting. Eventhough her intentions were good and she wanted to help, her presence was not the kind of help I needed / wanted.
So I kinda can relate to your wife not wanting you there.
I went to my husband’s grandma’s funeral. I’ll share my experience although beware it might be different cos this was the only Japanese funeral I’ve attended so idk.
Before the funeral, they would dress the deceased in kimono. It’s in a private room with immediate family, you could probably be there to witness or take part of it.
During the funeral it was a lot of greeting guests and then prayers, and then more greetings and handing out bento boxes as the guests leave. I’d think this part is the problematic part, probably better to stay at home while this happen? The grieving family acts more like hosts rather than people who receive comfort from guests.
After the funeral they go home and eat the bento boxes at home. You should be able to join this one cos it’s private and at home?
Your wife doesn’t want you there. You don’t need to know the reasons or worry what others in HER family might think. Respect her choices, I would not ask her father directly as that could bring extra conflict in an already stressful time. Just don’t go, and let her grieve in whatever way she needs to.
Went to my wife’s grandfather and grand-grandmother’s funerals. They were both living on an island where barely 150 people, mostly elders, are living and who are not used to strangers. It’s totally different from our western funerals and I understand that maybe she doesn’t want to have to deal with presentations or being asked many questions about her foreign husband in that kind of moment since it’s what will probably happen. Maybe she doesnlt want to explain you what to do or what not to do. Maybe she’s afraid that you act like foreigners do in western funerals with too much empathy and become embarassing for the family. Many elders are still against international mariages so maybe she doesnlt want to deal with that, especially if nobody there knows about it. Maybe she just wants to be alone with her family. Whatever her reasons, if she thinks that it’s better for you no to go she might be right and you should not go to avoid useless embarassment and/or conflict.
Dude – your wife’s wishes are the only thing that matters here, not yours.
I would press to a point. “I want to support you. I care about your family. I will do what you ask, but this will not cause me any pain or problems. Is there something else that will trouble you if I attend? You can tell me anything and I will listen to you. If not, it’s okay.”
Gentle insistence with affirmation that you’re on her side.
Offer an open door but a reminder it’s okay if she closes it.
Don’t insist on how it’ll make you feel RIGHT NOW. That can be a conversation for a later time if you end up not attending. Her grief comes first.
Let her be.
If she says this is how you can help. Then do that.
I have been to my wife’s grandma’s funeral and actually took part in it. It was in a smaller town in rural Japan.
The ceremony is pretty straight forward and you would just follow what others at your relative status( grandchild related by marriage) would do. I actually had some roles I had to do and it was fine. Removing bones, greeting people with the body next you you, carrying the picture, praying at the temple etc. The only way you would be the mendokusai foreigner is if you acted disrespectful like any Japanese person would too.
This being said, if your wife/family doesn’t want you to come then I wouldn’t push it. Yes, it is weird in my opinion but you don’t have to be with them all the time to be supportive. Definitely talk to your wife/family and let them know that you want to help. Also if it offends you talk to her about that too, before or after. Most the time people won’t care that you are a foreigner but many people (and particularly Japanese in my experience) care more of what they think people will say/think. You wouldn’t be there for show but also shouldn’t not be there because you aren’t “typical”.
So just talk it out and tell your feelings. Gauge the situation and decide if before or after is better.
Maybe just listen to your wife? Are you trying to cause shame or confusion on their day of mourning? Rest in peace to her grandfather.
Sounds like she already has a lot on her plate that she doesn’t want at this time to have to also deal with questions from you (about the proceedings) or about you (from the village). Just travel as far as you can with her (nearby city?) and then give her space.
She may be going through a difficult time. It’s better to respect her decision and her wish not to cause any further problems or conflict.
I reckon she must be busy organizing or co-hosting a funeral and doesn’t want to go to the trouble of introducing you to the outdated people in the small village.
Listen to your wife. Especially since it would be your first funeral. Be supportive when she comes home.
God I hate doing the picking up bones after the cremation thing. The funeral guy in the room kept making comments about how you could see the signs of osteoporosis in the remains, etc, and I just decided I am never doing it again.
Just to add my two cents, I was dating someone when I lost an important family member, and we were in a situation where having her at the funeral would have been an extra burden on the family because of transportation and logistics.
Her getting upset with me about it while I was grieving still something I resent about that relationship (which is over.)
I have been to a Japanese funeral – something I’m grateful for in an odd sort of way, and humbled by, as I realize I got to participate in something most foreigners never get to see.
That said, I don’t think this is really a question about the service itself. As others have said, I think it’s more about you and your wife and her concerns. I’d focus there and how you can be the most supportive partner right now.
Regardless of how this turns out – my condolences to you and your family.
It doesn’t matter what you want to do. Respect your wife’s wishes. Don’t make the funeral about you.
Your wife already has enough to deal with emotionally because of her grandfather’s death, and you’re only going to make it worse if you go and make her worry about you.
You are not only being a “mendokusai gaijin” but also a really “mendokusai husband” if you try to attend.
Do what your wife says man. If she’s telling you it’s a bad idea, don’t fight it. Insisting on going is only
Going to make it more uncomfortable for her. You will definitely be a “mendokusai gaijin” there.
I went to one last year. Similar story, wife’s grandma passed away, small mountain village etc etc.
The big difference is that I’m relatively known there – my parents in law are quite open to their neighbours about their daughter being married to a foreigner and are very supportive. We got gifts from the neighbours when we got married, despite me having never met most of them.
I would say in your case, you should definitely listen to what your wife is telling you. If she thinks you should stay home, do so. If she thinks you should go, do so. One thing I will say is that people tend to remember who turns up to two events – weddings and funerals – so if your wife doesn’t mind either way and you do intend to introduce yourself to the neighbours eventually anyway, then it’s definitely worth going even if only to show willing. Especially if you have ever met her grandpa.
In terms of rituals, just do what everyone else does and you’ll be fine. It’s OK to tap out of 正座 if it’s too painful. It’s OK to not to do everything flawlessly.
Yes, I attended and participated in the funeral of my father in law, recently.
Just copy what everyone else does, be reverential, ask your wife for instructions beforehand. You may or may not be invited to place bones in the urn. I’m not squeamish, so it wasn’t a problem for me, but some may be put off by the scent of roasted bones. Wear black clothes and shoes. No jewelry. Nothing shiny or decorative. If you don’t understand Buddhist rituals I suggest you Google. Each sect does it a little differently. There’s a part of the ceremony involving incense… just copy the actions of every person who went ahead of you . Be silent during the ceremonies. Allow others to grieve or reflect. It’s not so different from the funerals of other cultures.
Edit: don’t worry about standing out… If your wife doesn’t mind you being there. If you don’t go, it could be seen as a slight.
>Will I be the “mendokusai gaijin” if I go there?
You will be the “mendokusai husband” if you go there against her wish.
Hard to tell. Your wife probably has some concerns that go beyond worrying that you won’t have a good time. Family dynamics are complicated.
I attended my wife’s grandfather’s funeral and didn’t have any problems, but everyone in the family knew we were married so it wasn’t the same situation. The only thing that caught me off guard was that after the cremation I was one of the family members invited to place the remains in the urn. They give you this big pair of chopsticks and you pick up a piece of the remains to put in the urn.
I’m a bit clumsy with chopsticks and was massively worried I would send a piece of his skull flying across the room or something, but fortunately it went smoothly.
I’m Sorry for your Family loss.
You should support your Wife 100%. Let her, make any decisions over this matter.
I wouldn’t read too deeply into this man. Let your wife go by herself and just have a nice weekend with your friends or something. No harm, no foul.
As others said, probably best to respect her wishes.
That said, she’s probably blowing it out of proportion. I moved to a small rural community and we had a lot of funerals. The tradition was for the neighborhood men to handle the 受付 at the funeral (accepting donations, handing out programs, etc). They always included me and nobody batted an eye. I’m sure some people were a bit surprised to see a gaijin there in that role, but they didn’t freak out or anything.
I’d probably go with the wife’s assessment.
I’ve spent a lot of time in these small mountain villages. They’re fine, they don’t hate foreigners or anything, but they are small mountain villages filled with what are essentially red necks. You know the culture the lingo and the undercurrent of why small villages are ignorant of the larger world and don’t really get along with city people, and understand the aversion to strangers and all that. Frankly it’s fine, once you aren’t a stranger and they know you they’re super friendly and welcoming but are still rednecks and it’s their turf and you are the outsider. Foreigner or not really they don’t care you aren’t from the village.
Also they don’t usually speak Japanese in these tiny mountain villages. They speak some really thick accented hogen that is barely understandable to Japanese speakers. So however good you think your japanese is you won’t understand them anyway.
At this point with the funeral and all that, I’d just go with the wife’s lead. She knows the whole situation better than you. Go there some other time when there isn’t a funeral about. Probably be welcome at a festival or something like that. Ask your wife about it.
Your wife asked you not to come for whatever reasons. Respect her wishes and back off. I’ve been to three Japanese funerals. I’d just as soon skip them anyway.
My *personal* experience is, whenever my lily white husband shows up to small family functions (nothing big and important like funeral), my extended family makes a big fuzz about how to cater to “HIM”, what he can eat, how he can be “entertained”, as if he is a foreign dignitary that had to be pandered to. They’d spend extra efforts to “please” him. For instance, my uncle went around the towns looking for hoppy’ish stout dark beer because he has a German last name from the US, so they didn’t want him to drink generic **Pale Lagers**. My uncle was treating us to a nice dinner that night at a pretty upscale restaurant. (dude…. that’s how much backwards bend they’d go thru just because he’s …. foreign.. )
It bothers me mildly, not because they never spent that kind of efforts to make sure I feel welcomed, I’m already blood. I was bothered more or less because the hoops they make for themselves to jump through to cater to him, and in most cases, he really doesn’t care much one way or the other, and wouldn’t want to trouble anyone.
Mind you, my families have many international marriages too.
Your wife / family situation might be different. That was mine.
While you should respect your wife’s wishes, she should also give consideration if you wish to pay your respects to her grandfather.
Not like his funeral is going to happen again.
“Will I be the “mendokusai gaijin” if I go there?”
Based on this post and your comments, yeah. You seem only concerned about yourself.
So depending on if FIL was grandma first born son, will dictate how much work he and his family have to do. When my husbands grandma died, my FIL was her oldest living son so he was chief mourner and with my husband (his only son), basically had to organize everything in a very short space of time. I actually think you will end up being by yourself alot because your wife will be busy most of the time with no one to look after you…
I suspect that your wifes family may also not need the ‘support’ like we feel in the west. When grandma died, it was expected and everything happened like clockwork and didn’t feel particularly sad.
If you’ve read My Home Hero I can imagine what this village is like.
Why not just listen to your wife and stay away, spare a thought for the idea you’re already being the mendomusai gaijin insisting you got to support her, showing western empathy etc. she’s just lost her grandpa and wants to deal with it her own way.
Last thing she needs to add to her plate is explain to you why she doesn’t want you there.
Make the offer to support, if she’s turned it down, that’s it and let her know she can change her mind any time. It’s her grandpa’s funeral in some remote place Japan too, not yours. It’s about her not you frankly – but reading some of the comments here I can see why there’s cultural clash because to us Asians the ones insisting on standing up for your rights are just bringing that same foreign entitlement
While I support your desire to support your wife in this time I also know she wants what she wants and it doesn’t have to be rational, grief is like that.
I was at a Japanese Buddhist funeral last month, we’re having the Shinto rites this weekend and will be interring the bones in the family graveyard which is in bumblefuck central Hyogo. As far as being the odd man out, I got “rave reviews” by the family, the deceased’s work colleagues/surviving friends, and government officials who were there for the funeral ceremony. I was literally the only non-Asian face we saw during the whole ordeal. But here’s the thing – it’s not about you – it’s about them – read the air and do whatever your wife asks you to do.
As a Japanese, I think you are decision is general.
As your Japanese wife said, rural peple doesn’t familiar with foreigners. Consequently, their reaction may not good. However, I think more bad thing is not joining funeral. Whatever things ur wife said, u should go to there. If u won’t do that, ur image from rural peple getting worse. Rural peple regard ritual and relatives so important.
Your the member of the relative, so in case which u don’t go funeral is grave breach of manners.
Ofcaurse, u respect ur partner’s opinion but I think her opinion has her own bias. I think the average rural person is positive about attending funerals, even if they are foreigners.
OP, it’s your wife’s call.
My wife’s grandpa passed over the summer. I too was asked not to come. Better to not get in the way.
A funeral is not the best time to meet your wife’s extended family. Even if nothing actually goes wrong, it will put extra stress on your wife.
I’d recommend letting your wife go alone to the funeral. If you want to meet her family, maybe you can make plans to visit another time at New Year or perhaps, if they have one, the 1 year memorial for her grandfather next year
I get your admirable sentiment but I’d do anything to not attend a funeral (Japanese or not, but especially Japanese ones). Seeing a charred body was one of the worst experiences of my life.
If I were in your position, I would be hurt. I think it’s reasonable to want to be with your wife to support her and then to feel put off when she says no. I would give your wife space to grieve the way she wants to for now, as other comments have said. Maybe in a couple of months, you can reintroduce the idea of visiting her family at a more appropriate time.